As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
They say this is proof that Hillary talk in '12 is for amateurs and pantsuited bitter-enders, but isn't it astounding that right now only 52% of Democrats would renominate their sitting President, with 37% opting for the woman who tried to defeat him? The savvy and reasonable Phil Klein thinks Ms. Clinton ought to keep her powder dry for '16, but -- well, look at it: 2016. It might as well be 2216. Yes, Biden will be "too old" to run. No, nobody expected Biden to run again anyway.
Everyone expects Hillary to run in 2016, because this is the last shot she'll have at the White House. (If you think Bill's getting embarrassing now....) It's not that Hillary has ever shied away from the unglamorous option. It's that Obama put her precisely where she'd be able to do the least harm to his reelection prospects, where she'd least be able to remain in perpetual campaign mode -- and quietly, without even trying, she endures. That's a powerful indication of the structural weakness of Obama's political support, isn't it? And isn't it going to be revealing when these numbers move -- as move they must -- when Obama's progress report is filed in November? How can a Clinton resist?
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Aug '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
OMG, if she's elected it will be like traversing the Inferno to another ring of hell. G'd help us. Hillary should never be trusted to do anything.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
You know, while we're all bemoaning the paucity of credible GOP candidates, it's instructive to ask who, exactly, the Democrats have in the bullpen for 2016 - or if Obama collapses going into 2012.
My guess is Hillary's day has come and gone. Presidential candidates rarely get a second trip to the well.
Otherwise, who have they got?
Seriously, the Democrats suffer a serious charisma deficit at the national level.
Edited on Oct 1, 2010 at 9:43amRe: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
In October 2009, at a little conference in Richmond attended by John Yoo, I made a bet that Obama would get creamed in the midterms and that Hillary would find an occasion early in 2011 to resign on a question of principle – and that she would soon thereafter present herself as the savior of her party.
More recently, I have wondered whether something else might not be afoot. In a piece posted on 29 July – entitled Democrat Civil War: Time to Turn to the Capo di tutti Capi – I raised the possibility that Obama might boot Biden in 2012 and put Hillary in his place. He has already altered the party rules concerning the caucus states so that no insurgent can do to him what he did to Hillary, and Leslie Gelb, among others, has has suggested the maneuver I just mentioned.
I imagined the deal being done in a meeting between O. and Bubba at Chelsea's wedding -- in which the former came to the latter to ask a favor and uttered the words, "Be my friend!"
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
I have trouble envisioning an Obama with the necessary humility to ask Hillary to join the ticket. I also think if he's ever in a place where he NEEDS her to do so...she's already in a position to just take the whole thing from him. The poll asked only Democrats and those leaning Democrat, so it doesn't shock me that he's presently ahead of her with those people. I'd imagine she's even or a few points ahead of him when ALL likely or registered voters are asked the same question...or will be after the mid-terms.
I voted for her in 2008, I'd vote for her again depending on who she was up against and certainly up against the President, but as much as I respect and admire her abilities and intellect, I cannot envision a scenario where she is not simply too old in 2016 to make it happen. 2012 is her last chance.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Jonathan Matthew Gilbert: I have trouble envisioning an Obama with the necessary humility to ask Hillary to join the ticket. I also think if he's ever in a place where he NEEDS her to do so...she's already in a position to just take the whole thing from him. The poll asked only Democrats and those leaning Democrat, so it doesn't shock me that he's presently ahead of her with those people. I'd imagine she's even or a few points ahead of him when ALL likely or registered voters are asked the same question...or will be after the mid-terms.
I voted for her in 2008, I'd vote for her again depending on who she was up against and certainly up against the President, but as much as I respect and admire her abilities and intellect, I cannot envision a scenario where she is not simply too old in 2016 to make it happen. 2012 is her last chance. · Oct 1 at 10:36am
Could you please tell me what Hillary Clinton has ever, um, accomplished?
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
She married Bill.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Bingo
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Kenneth
Bingo · Oct 1 at 11:03am
And, despite her protestations early on, like Tammy Wynette, she stood by her man.
Sep '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Never forget that even as a young woman Hillary was also an accomplished commodities trader.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Well, to be crass...I suspect she's done everything she's ever been accused of and yet no one has ever or will ever be able to prove a thing. If she can cover her own butt that well...why not let her cover mine? It's certainly hard to think she'd be worse than Obama and easy to imagine that she'd be better. At the end of the day, she's at least competent and consistent. Just like with George W., you'd know where you stood instead of this constant waffling designed to please everyone. I think she would have followed military recommendations on Afghanistan, would have lifted DADT, and delivered a healthcare bill that conservatives didn't like but which at least was what she claimed and was accurately budgetted all within the first six months, and without literally or figuratively bowing to any foreign leader in the process. I suspect she'd also have focused on jobs almost immediately because the working poor are her power base, and I bet she would have gotten more GOP votes than just the ladies from Maine on almost all of that...
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
You've just told us what you speculate she might have done.
That's not what I asked. I asked what she has ever accomplished.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
She was a U.S. Senator from NY. She is the Secretary of State.
My experience has shown that many Democrats end up governing conservatively and many Republicans govern liberally. I don't think she'd be as awful as Obama, but that's a low bar.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
As Secretary of State she's I suspect she's kept the President from doing a far amount of damage but most of that's behind the scenes--as it should be. If the Israeli-Palestinian talks yield any results, I think the credit will largely be hers. As my Senator she was instrumental in securing support and funding for 9/11 first responders facing health issues, she helped save a fair amount of military jobs, and she worked across the aisle more than almost any other Democrat I can name, a trait that shouldn't be disregarded in this climate. I'm not sure why it is that you think the person who secured more votes than any other in the history of United States presidential primaries doesn't have accomplishments; you may not like her but her life and record over the past 25 years are pretty evident. Even as First Lady she stood up to China more than most of our presidents have...I don't think most senators usually make great presidents but she used her Senate tenure to build the relationships an effective president would need, something Obama could have learned from.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
As Secretary of State she's I suspect she's kept the President from doing a far amount of damage but most of that's behind the scenes--as it should be. If the Israeli-Palestinian talks yield any results, I think the credit will largely be hers. As my Senator she was instrumental in securing support and funding for 9/11 first responders facing health issues, she helped save a fair amount of military jobs, and she worked across the aisle more than almost any other Democrat I can name, a trait that shouldn't be disregarded in this climate. I'm not sure why it is that you think the person who secured more votes than any other in the history of United States presidential primaries doesn't have accomplishments; you may not like her but her life and record over the past 25 years are pretty evident. Even as First Lady she stood up to China more than most of our presidents have...I don't think most senators usually make great presidents but she used her Senate tenure to build the relationships an effective president would need, something Obama could have learned from.
Jul '10
Re: As Obama Falters, Hillary's Appeal Won't Fade
Michael Tee: She was a U.S. Senator from NY. She is the Secretary of State.
My experience has shown that many Democrats end up governing conservatively and many Republicans govern liberally. I don't think she'd be as awful as Obama, but that's a low bar. · Oct 1 at 5:48pm
Those aren't accomplishments.
Those were coronations.