Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
I spent much of the weekend reading through the 1500-page manifesto by Anders Behring Breivik. It is a fascinating and horrifying document. The early reports that Breivik was a "fundamentalist Christian" have been debunked (which I wrote about here). He says, for instance, that he's not particularly religious. But he's very much obsessed with multiculturalism and Islam. He views Islam as a global threat and the multiculturalist institutions of Europe as impotent to fight it. (One writer notes that the terrorist's ideology itself, however, is very multiculturalist with its talk of power, identity and victimhood.) The manifesto cites everything from the Declaration of Independence to Mahatma Gandhi but it focuses a great deal on anti-Islamist writings.
And that's enough for the New York Times to assert, in a news article and not an editorial, that anti-Islamist bloggers are responsible for these deaths. I don't read that particular set of blogs but the article doesn't quote any actual calls to violence or terrorism or justification for violence or terrorism in these blogs.
So what's going on here? I'd be open to a very thoughtful exploration of whether anti-Islamist rhetoric has created a new counter-jihad terrorist movement and how. But thus far I've yet to read any single Christian group or conservative group or anti-Muslim group defend this man's behavior or attempt to justify it. Far from it -- they have loudly condemned it. From the Pope on down.
Is this just an indication that the media has difficulty discussing topics outside of a framework of moral relativism? Or is this an actual attempt to chill speech by creating a climate of fear around anti-Islamist writings?
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May '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
To begin with I think it's just human nature to try to make sense of the senseless. Then the bias of ones political beliefs come into play to fill in the blanks, quickly followed by projection. That becomes the conventional wisdom until the books come out three years later. The conventional wisdom then becomes more dear because nobody bothers to read the books. Voilà! Another urban legend is born.
After six months I would be willing to bet that daily readers of Kos and the Democratic Underground still think Jared Loughner was either a Sarah Palin fan or her last campaign manager. Calm, rational discussions can not dissuade the committed. (Or should I say the soon to be committed?)
But is the NYT trying to shut people up? Sure. And when this kind of thing hits America's shores they will bear some responsibility. Venting is good. It's a release. When institutions delegitimize discussion then it goes underground and festers. Those on the thin edge of the mental wedge feel even more repressed and it increases the chances that they'll snap.
Racists should be encouraged to vent. They feel better and we can identify the crazies.
Sep '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Read this 1500 page manifesto and the NY Times. I am awed. You have picked a horrible way to make a living; unless you are into self-flagellation. Me I read a good book, watched the ball game, drank sweet tea and ate boiled peanuts. I ended the weekend with the little bit of sanity I had when I started it; which I would not have had if I did what you did.
Nov '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
The NYT was the first news organization I saw that tried to turn this guy into a 'right-wing Christian fundamentalist'. I didn't know they'd stopped.
It was inevitable that the media would try to use this incident to tar conservatives and Christians. What I didn't see in the Times, or anywhere else, is mention of how frustrated and fearful many Europeans are about what's happening to them demographically, and about how complacent their ruling class is about it.
In his indispensable book 'American Alone', Mark Steyn predicted that we might see this kind of thing. He talks about what reactions we can expect at the Muslim situation in Western Europe reaches critical mass.
This Breivik creep may not be the last we see of this kind of thing. I fear for the peace of Western Europe.
Feb '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
I don’t think it is an attempt to create a climate of fear about anti-Islamist writings. That climate of fear is already present. If you are a basically decent progressive who knows how to follow all the rules for being a decent progressive, you will be horrified by Mark Steyn and very nervous about everything that Andy McCarthy writes. You’re already afraid they’re playing to the worst side of humanity, and you basically expect it to blow up in their faces. So progressives are trying to make sense of these attacks. One thing they look at is (quite reasonably) what the man who committed them actually says. These things sound familiar.
In the meantime, if they were to turn to the comments on a place like Ricochet, they’d see everyone complaining about Media bias and how the evil MSM is ignoring the fact that Islamists really do pose a threat to the West. Is that going to sound comforting to anyone?
May '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
SMatthewStolte: I don’t think it is an attempt to create a climate of fear about anti-Islamist writings. That climate of fear is already present. If you are a basically decent progressive who knows how to follow all the rules for being a decent progressive, you will be horrified by Mark Steyn and very nervous about everything that Andy McCarthy writes. You’re already afraid they’re playing to the worst side of humanity, and you basically expect it to blow up in their faces. So progressives are trying to make sense of these attacks. One thing they look at is (quite reasonably) what the man who committed them actually says. These things sound familiar.
In the meantime, if they were to turn to the comments on a place like Ricochet, they’d see everyone complaining about Media bias and how the evil MSM is ignoring the fact that Islamists really do pose a threat to the West. Is that going to sound comforting to anyone? · Jul 25 at 8:50am
So what do we do? Not talk about the threat?
Feb '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Just to clarify, I meant that they’re talking about these things in response to these shootings. Your question may still stand, but I don’t want to be misunderstood.
Mar '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Starve the Beast:
This Breivik creep may not be the last we see of this kind of thing. I fear for the peace of Western Europe. · Jul 25 at 8:43am
Nutjobs seldom need a reason to be nutjobs. And the left would have us all banned or in "sensitivity classes" if they could in any case . We're already seeing some efforts in this direction with the left's "hate speech isn't free speech" meme; if it's "hate", it can be banned, so goes their thinking. This will replace "I may not agree with what you say, but"...
My take is that we on the right shouldn't do things one bit differently. Keep reading, thinking, publishing, and arguing. If the left tries to use government power to shut us down... a'la the Canadians and Steyn... then push back, hard, especially in the courts. Give no quarter in telling the truth. Backing off simply looks weasel-ish.
Aug '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Considering that Norway is a country where nobody seems to think it's odd that political parties should own summer camps, it should be no surprise that this guy would be labelled a "right-wing" extremist.
Mar '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
I do. The left is the "never let a crisis go to waste" bunch. They're going to milk this for all it's worth, and try to use it to suppress their enemies. See the whole "hate speech isn't free speech" meme of theirs. I can already see their new slogan: pic of the Norway victims, with a "hate speech kills" caption.
It's a short distance from there to banning books and outlawing all the wrong words.
May '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Gonzaga (A Jesuit school and Bing Crosby alma mater) now has an Institute for Hate Studies. Another worthless degree...
Jul '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Is this just an indication that the media has difficulty discussing topics outside of aframework of moral relativism? Or is this an actual attempt to chill speech by creating a climate of fear around anti-Islamist writings?
Well I would suggest both are correct assumptions depending on which progressive is directing the tune and of course the marching bands are dutifully playing.
I would add that there are some with such vitriolic hate for all things conservative or Christian that any opportunity to denounce these two great "evils" is to be seized upon. Quite similar to all radical ideologists in the sense that all events funnel in to their narrow worldviews sans nuance.
Jun '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Douglas
My take is that we on the right shouldn't do things one bit differently. Keep reading, thinking, publishing, and arguing. If the left tries to use government power to shut us down... a'la the Canadians and Steyn... then push back, hard, especially in the courts. Give no quarter in telling the truth. Backing off simply looks weasel-ish. · Jul 25 at 9:03am
I agree. This horrific evil will be brought up every time the dangers of Islamist extremism are discussed with the goal of shutting down the dialogue. Breivik will ultimately be responsible for even more deaths if we let the left depict his actions as the predictable outcome of a climate where the Islamist threat is freely discussed. We have to keep bringing the truth to the forefront.
I really hope this doesn't mirror the damage that IRA bombings outside toy stores did to shut down examination of the need for Catholic civil rights. Senseless violence immediately drains any sympathy the world has for the cause --- although just the little bit of Breivik's writings I've seen makes it hard to really determine if he had any "cause" other than being deranged.
Dec '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
So, let me get this straight. The NYT is anti-anti-Islamists? Just like the NYT was anti-anti-communists? The significance of this Norwegian psychopath isn't his politics. It's his act of evil. But, lefties don't fight evil. They fight the right -- the only obstacle to their socialist Utopia. There's nothing new in old left-wing media.
Jun '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Never forget that the Islamists are inflamed to violence in very measurable ways when they come to our universities and are filled with anti-American fake history. It is our universities who are the fount of all hatred in modern America. These professors have blood on their hands. Western Chauvinist is correct to compare them to the cold war battles we had and the professors and left-wing students definitely had blood on their hands in their support for the Soviets and the Reds everywhere. And in their continued support for Castro and his brother.
The big difference is that we conservatives don't support anti-Islamist terrorism (or of any kind). The left's insouciance on the blood baths of the Commies world wide is something worth studying. Especially while they strain at every gnat in political battles against Christians and conservatives in the West.
Also, Mark Steyn predicted a backlash in Europe -- whether timely or late-coming -- as a result of the Islamists. We should expect it.
Edited on Jul 25, 2011 at 10:46amDec '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.:
Is this just an indication that the media has difficulty discussing topics outside of a framework of moral relativism? Or is this an actual attempt to chill speech by creating a climate of fear around anti-Islamist writings? ·
My leanings are infinitely more toward the former. I think it is lack of any accepted morality that leads to these "kitchen sink" arguments where this deranged man is then compared to every other derange white male (e.g. Kazynksi, McVeigh) of the last two decades. They can connect crimes with different motives, victims and methods, but they can't find the common link between a guy killing soldiers on a US military base screaming Allah Akbar and Jihadis in the middle east, killing soldiers on US military bases, screaming Allah Akbar.
The ultimate downfall of this philosophy is that it is not longer about moral relevancy, but moral convenience. The great shame is that such scatological reasoning isn't openly mocked in the public square, but is rather enshrined as objective observation.
We are witnessing the blind leading the blind, which must be a difficult task to accomplish while using hands to cover your eyes.
Edited on Jul 25, 2011 at 11:34amMar '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
I presume the NT Times is referring to Robert Spencer - he will be posting a rebuttal shortly, is much more articulate than I am, and can do doubt defend himself.
I haven't read his blog in a while, but used to. It didn't prompt me to go and build a bomb or shoot a bunch of people.
This is the same old same old from the NY times - Conservatives were responsible for the Oklahama City and Tucson atrocities, also.
"Is this just an indication that the media has difficulty discussing topics outside of a framework of moral relativism? Or is this an actual attempt to chill speech by creating a climate of fear around anti-Islamist writings?" - both. It's been going on for some time - ask Mark Steyn - and will now get worse.
Update: Good article on moral equivalence at Front Page Magazine (Mr Spencer is also a writer there)
Edited on Jul 25, 2011 at 11:53amMay '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Brilliant counter to the "hatred is from the right" meme.
Jul '11
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Beasley, I like that terminology...."moral convenience". I would bet those that use moral convenience would embrace the wording without understanding the fallacy.
Aug '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
Breivik's absentee father is a theme that is mentioned repeatedly in the rambling 1,500 page manifesto.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8659746/Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik-was-a-mummys-boy.html
Dec '10
Re: Are Conservatives Guilty By Association To Oslo Terrorist?
You have to marvel at how lefties get away with this stuff. Apart from Islamists themselves, who isn't anti-Islamist?! Not even the NYT you would think.
And yet, here we are talking about those evil anti-Islamists and conservative complicity. Leftism is one sick twisted ideology. Forgive my right-wing religious nuttery, but there's a spirit of deception which inhabits leftism and it's foothold in this world is the power of self-deception.