Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Like saris and syphilis, communes aren't just for hippies anymore. A New York Times article from a few years back discussed how communes have been steadily growing since the mid-90’s into more mainstream communities. Israel has had kibbutzim for a long time, acting as economic and social centers, with the more moderate and capitalist renewing kibbutz holding the majority ground. Others are talking about them too, for reasons going beyond just the economy. If things keep sliding, are “intentional living” communities going to be on the rise? Might they be one solution to social ills and increased costs of living?
A few years ago my aunt suggested that our extended family start thinking about forming a commune. The idea was that, as family members retired or went through tough times, we could live together and care for each other in old age. We could save money by growing our own food and sharing responsibilities, and because we trust and respect each other, there would be less of a risk of mooching or free riding.
Communes could become vogue among more collective-minded people like the OWS protesters, a sort of oasis in this capitalist desert. A lot of communes are socialist, which is great; I only have a problem with collectivism when it’s practiced by the government, and this gives them an outlet for their lifestyle. Even though socialists are associated with communes, it’s such a wonderfully pioneer idea: living with a like-minded group of people with similar values in a supportive environment. It sounds a lot like what my German ancestors did when they set up farming communities in the Great Plains. Is a conservative commune likely, where we all help each other out and dodge income tax through an expansive definition of “household”?
Even if communes aren't the solution for larger living arrangements, they could be a great alternative for college kids as education costs keep going up. A lot of my good friends lived in communes and socialist houses in college, and besides some quirky gatherings (nude wine and hummus, anyone?) they were pretty great places to stay or hang out. The communes allowed people to live with others in a support group away from family and taught them to get along with people they didn't necessarily consider friends. As a fraternity boy, they were much more self-sufficient than we were, among the most frugal people I knew, and came out of college better adjusted for the real world.
What do you think of communes? Do we already have living arrangements that resemble communes, such as subdivisions and assisted living communities? Could communes be a harmful development, isolating communities and breaking down traditional family structures?
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Jan '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Isn't John Gault in a commune?
Jan '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
So odd that you posted this. We've been kicking this idea around in my family for the past year or two. I'd be curious to understand what types of ownership arrrangements are possible. Share that could be purchased & inherited? Rights of first refusal when someone wants out? The thing right now is everyone deciding on a location (multiple locations & states) and uprooting their current careers & housing.
The throught of working with my brothers-in-laws, their children, family support & gatherings more often is really appealing. I think with the fiscal icebergs coming our way, this may be a very workable solution.
May '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
I dream of this kind of thing all the time. It's a remedy for the rootlessness and alienation rife in our culture.
But it's very, very hard to do well. It might be impossible.
Aug '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
QuickerBrownFox
The idea was that, as family members retired or went through tough times, we could live together and care for each other in old age. We could save money by growing our own food and sharing responsibilities, and because we trust and respect each other, there would be less of a risk of mooching or free riding.
Hmm... food-growing aside, this sounds a lot like just living in an extended family. Add the food-growing, and it's extended family plus gardening.
QuickerBrownFox
Is a conservative commune likely, where we all help each other out and dodge income tax through an expansive definition of “household”?
Maybe a conservative commune is simply an expansive household?
QuickerBrownFox
(nude wine and hummus, anyone?)
How exactly do you go about making wine nude? Is the hummus nude, too?
QuickerBrownFox
...they were much more self-sufficient than we were, among the most frugal people I knew, and came out of college better adjusted for the real world.
I think this description right here could surprise lots of folks (not me so much). How many of us righties reflexively reject any picture of "hippies" as self-sufficient, frugal, and adjusted to the real world? :-)
Aug '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
QuickerBrownFox
Could communes be a harmful development, isolating communities and breaking down traditional family structures? ·
Communes that aren't based around families sure can have problems. A notorious problem of the kibbutzim is that youngsters essentially raised as brother and sister, despite being genetically unrelated, don't often see each other as potential mates, and so keep on marrying outsiders, which can make it hard to keep the kibbutz going.
I have a hard time seeing how a family-based commune could break down traditional family structures -- unless y'all were forced to be around each other so much that ya started to strangle each other or something.
All family life is communal. It's just that the modern nuclear family is a very small commune, unable to take advantage of certain economies of scale, perhaps.
As for "isolating communities"... During a bleak period of her life, Midge here thought about joining a self-described Christian commune for, oh, about a week. And backed out when she realized how isolated she'd be from everyone else -- but that particular commune turned out to be a borderline cult. Somewhat different from "just" a commune!
Aug '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Oh, one more thing... There's this famous quote... from... someone... maybe Roger Scruton?...
"Family solidarity is the last bulwark against the encroaching state."
In that sense, family "communes" are a weapon against communism :-)
May '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
During a bleak period of her life, Midge here thought about joining a self-described Christian commune for, oh, about a week. And backed out when she realized how isolated she'd be from everyone else -- but that particular commune turned out to be a borderline cult. Somewhat different from "just" a commune! · Nov 19 at 7:24am
Creeping cultism is one of the problems.
Designing a structure of governance that duly protects liberty and private property, secures justice, and it fosters unity within the community is extremely difficult.
The only successful communes I know of are monastic and involve--besides divine grace--rules of chastity, poverty and obedience.
Early American settlements were a lot like communes. But there was a kind of absolute economic necessity in their shared life that doesn't obtain today. If things get REALLY bad, maybe that will come back.
Edited on Nov 19, 2011 at 7:37amDec '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
First thought reading the title and looking at the picture: soap is the solution to commies, but that's a little judgmental. The more I read, the more it seemed you were describing family life for much of the world. I suppose the voluntary associations Tocqueville was so enamored with do for the free world what the involuntary associations of communism and socialism do for their societies.
Jun '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
My Wife and I have the back house on a single plot with two houses so that we could share the upbringing of these two. What do you think? Is it worth it? Well, we decided it was.
We have 9 (soon to be 10) grandchildren and I wish we could all live on one compound. Seriously, if we could handle the financial issues and the fact that we all live spread out over 1,500 miles, I would love to do it.
(BTW, the above photo was done in early 1900s style complete with getting the kids not to smile. They're aren't cowed by a cult leader -- really they're not.)
Jul '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Not at the moment.
BTW - that commune thing is a secret. How do you expect to get invited if you can't keep a secret?
Dec '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
My house feels like a real communist commune most of the time. I do all the work and a bunch of freeloaders enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Aug '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
katievs
Creeping cultism is one of the problems.
D'ya suppose this would be as big a problem for a family adopting a more communal lifestyle?
katievs
Designing a structure of governance that duly protects liberty and private property, secures justice, and it fosters unity within the community is extremely difficult.
On the other hand, my family, which is about as anti-communitarian and bourgeois as you can get, also has such problems.
We, too, have some family members that allow other family members to sponge off them, to the rest of the family's dismay.
We, too, have taboos about what can and cannot be done with family money and property that drive many family members crazy and have led simultaneously to frustrated dreams and to significant financial difficulties. (For example there being "not enough money" for for a fee that afforded the opportunity of a lifetime while at the same time vastly more money than that fee was being poured into a scheme that kept on losing money and nearly impoverished the family.)
We also have problems with family members using each others' stuff without due permission.
Doesn't family life always have these problems?
Oct '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Kowaliczko Tom: So odd that you posted this. We've been kicking this idea around in my family for the past year or two. I'd be curious to understand what types of ownership arrrangements are possible. Share that could be purchased & inherited? Rights of first refusal when someone wants out? The thing right now is everyone deciding on a location (multiple locations & states) and uprooting their current careers & housing.
The throught of working with my brothers-in-laws, their children, family support & gatherings more often is really appealing. I think with the fiscal icebergs coming our way, this may be a very workable solution.
I imagine it might end up looking like an association or partnership, with community property and personal property separate. In Texas, there are fairly elaborate laws for community property in marriage, and it could probably look something like that.
Family reunions are a big part of why my aunt brought it up. If family members share similar values, like hard work and charity, I don't see why they couldn't be among the most workable communities.
Oct '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
We, too, have some family members that allow other family members to sponge off them, to the rest of the family's dismay.
We've had problems in our family too. For better or worse, we've all but pledged to support each other. In a commune, I think we could better control costs and trace where charity goes. If someone needs help, they know where to go. I'm not sure where tough love would begin.
katievs
Early American settlements were a lot like communes. But there was a kind of absolute economic necessity in their shared life that doesn't obtain today. If things get REALLY bad, maybe that will come back.
I hadn't thought of that. I guess those communities were probably self-selective with values to begin with, and necessity would only add to it. What would worry me the most is the creep of sloth. I tell myself that I would work hard, but people have a way of convincing themselves that life owes them something, and I'm no exception. Structure would be important, and could get a little awkward, like when couples talk about pre-nuptial agreements.
May '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
katievs
Creeping cultism is one of the problems.
D'ya suppose this would be as big a problem for a family adopting a more communal lifestyle?
I suppose the problem would be less if we're talking about families, who have deep ties of blood, mutual affection and shared background. My comment was in regard to "intentional communities", i.e. communes that form around some shared ideal or set of principles or strong personality.
...We also have problems with family members using each others' stuff without due permission.
Doesn't family life always have these problems? · Nov 19 at 11:02am
Yes, it does. It goes a long way toward explain why extended families don't live in communes together. Some members will habitually cross lines. If there's no recourse and no economic or other necessity in staying together, it means other members either put up with it, or move away to protect themselves and their children from dysfunction and abuse.
Dec '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
I'm reminded of attending a draft horse show several years ago with friends. As we looked at the products of the non-mechanized farming culture (Amish and others), we developed some sort of base longing for that simpler way of life. Alone it would be difficult, if not impossible, to make such a hard labor (but easy stress) lifestyle work, but with three or four families working a few sections of land it would be possible. I wonder if Jefferson's agrarian dream is impossible today apart from combining of individual efforts for interface with the rest of the world. I also wonder if there might be something in the DNA of Americans that hears the call of the land when the noise of modern life is dampened but a little.
May '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
Even more worrying than the economic dysfunction is the danger of moral and psychological dysfunction. Just as someone might think he deserves economic support, even though he's not pulling his weight, people can demand emotional and moral support when they are not shouldering their responsibility for right and good.
I want to stress that I'm not against the idea in principle. I think something like it might be a good and necessary solution to the alienation epidemic we're all suffering from. It's just that I think it's very, very difficult to get it right. Chesterton said in reference to orthodoxy, "there are an infinite number of angles at which a thing can fall; only one at which it can stand."
Feb '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
No. No. No.
Self-sufficiency necessitates poverty. Don't forget what Adam Smith wrote. Wealth (by which I don't mean being very rich, just improving your standard of living) necessitates specialization of labor and free trade. Don't grow your own food, unless that's what you do best, in which case be a farmer and grow everyone's food. If you want to live on a compound with others, be my guest, but there is no sensible reason for that compound to be an economic unit. You should build furniture or do accounting or practice law or do whatever you do, and you should do it as well as you can for as many clients/customers as you can get. You should exchange that money for food grown by people who grow food much better and for less money than you can. The only way forward is to become ever more specialized in what you produce and ever more diversified in what you consume. Gathering with others for self-sufficiency is going in exactly the wrong direction.
If you want something more recent than Adam Smith to read about this, try "The Rational Optimist" by Matt Ridley.
Edited on Nov 19, 2011 at 2:11pmOct '10
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
We are social animals—genetically programmed to work together to achieve our goals. We are far from unique in this: see ants, bees, and packs of wolves.
A couple of years after I moved to Switzerland I added the following epigram to my rotating list of E-mail signatures:
Community outvalues efficiency.
It does, you know, or at least you will after you've experienced it. But this is not even remotely a collectivist or communist phenomenon. When you do most of your business with people who live within ten minutes' walk of your house, you'll think long and hard before you try to cheat them, because your reputation will redound around the community and there are people here whose familial memories go back to the 17th century.
We needn't re-establish the external trappings of communes (which is what the LIFE cover is about), but rather the essentials: the web of trust among individuals which existed in small communities, however organised.
Feb '11
Re: Are Communes the Solution to the Commies?
How about these people? There are several communities in my area.
I admire them -- they are sincere Christians, and joyful, fun-loving people. But perhaps because I am a superficial kind of gal, I wouldn't want to live there. I don't like to wear jumpers and cover my hair, and don't get why the women and girls have to do that while the men get to wear normal-looking clothes.
The families all live in community, but they do not exclude the outside world. They run outstanding businesses and farm the land together. In the spring, you can drive past their land and see the crews of young people out planting the fields. They teach their children in community schools, and do an outstanding job. The children play town soccer (the girls wear their dresses) and at the end of the season they bring cookies and warm cider to share with the community.
If I were not a Catholic, I might be very tempted. But there is no Eucharist or sacraments there.