America’s First Socialist Republic
On Thanksgiving, it is customary that Americans recall to mind the experience of the Pilgrim Fathers Last year, thinking it especially appropriate that we do so at the outset of the Age of Obama, I posted a piece on Powerline entitled America’s First Socialist Republic, which Scott Johnson reposted this morning – in which I seized upon our commemoration of the first thanksgiving celebration as an occasion for reconsidering what their initial experience in the New World can teach us today.
We have, I believe, a great deal to learn from the history of the Plymouth Plantation. For, in their first year in the New World, the Pilgrims conducted an experiment in social engineering akin to what Barack Obama has attempted; and, after an abortive attempt at cultivating the land in common, their leaders reflected on the results in a manner that Americans today should find instructive. If you have the time, read my piece; glance at the blogposts by John Stossel, Frank Minister, and ReasonTV which restate my argument; and let me know what you think.
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May '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
Love it, Paul. Among the many things we're thankful for today is your becoming a Ricochet contributor.
There's a parallel with the Jews' experience in their new land. What started as a sort of utopian semi-socialist experiment eventually, after much struggle and wasted potential, transformed into a high-achieving capitalist model for the rest of the world.
Happy Thanksgiving, all.
Jul '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
"The moral is perfectly clear."
Why We have to keep banging Our head up against a collectivist wall is beyond Me.
Love it, Prof. Simple, concise, and speaks volumes.
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
Thank you, Professor Paul. I never tire of this instructive story. A blessed and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Jun '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
I wish to thank all of the contributors and members here at this delightful exchange of thoughts called Ricochet. And, although I read your original post on Powerline last year, Professor Rahe, it was wonderful to be reminded once more why this is the greatest country, operating under the finest economic system mankind has ever devised. It is called human nature and natural law. Our original Pilgrims discovered that it is always best to work with these forces as ones allay rather than attempt to overcome and fight against these forces. By harnessing nature and Man's natural desire to achieve and be free, the USA and its Capitalist economic system will continue to thrive. If we forget this principle, even with the best intentions to help our fellow man, we will eventually crumble.
Aug '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
More propaganda from the Right Wing Attack Machine! Everyone knows they didn't have a big enough stimulus package, enough regulations, a strong Fed, health care, medicare, school lunches, free condoms, Head Start programs...
Jun '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
The thing I appreciate about Paul's article is that it is does not claim to debunk the Thanksgiving day myth, but speak to the real issue at hand - that private enterprises leverages and inalienable self-interest. That is the heart of the issue on this day of ThanksGiving.
As for the Limbaugh/Stossel version that it was the switch from "socialism to free enterprise" that led from famine to Thanksgiving, there seems to be serious scholarly doubt/criticism of this basic story. NY Times has an article "The Pilgrims Were … Socialists?" that CLAIMS to debunk it, but starts with the phrase "Historians quibble with this interpretation."
The key fact this article disputes is that the Thanksgiving celebration was in 1621 and the shift from "the common course" to family parcels was in 1623. The source in the article is "Richard Pickering" who is cited as "deputy director of Plimoth Plantation." I cannot find the source text where Pickering says this, or the source texts that he is drawing on, but this seems to be a critical fact.
Anyone? Bueller?
Also, the History channel History of Thanksgiving show uses Plimoth Plantation, attributes communal ownership to success. Great show. Recommended.
Edited on Nov 25, 2010 at 9:56amRe: America’s First Socialist Republic
Mark Lewis: As for the Limbaugh/Stossel version that it was the switch from "socialism to free enterprise" that led from famine to Thanksgiving, there seems to be serious scholarly doubt/criticism of this basic story. NY Times has an article "The Pilgrims Were … Socialists?" that CLAIMS to debunk it, but starts with the phrase "Historians quibble with this interpretation." Nov 25 at 9:53am
Edited on Nov 25 at 09:56 am
Thanks for this. I was unaware of the piece published in Pravda on the Hudson -- which, by way of bringing in Jamestown and the various disputes concerning the celebration of Thanksgiving, deliberately obscures what is crystal clear from the testimony of William Bradford, the colony's governor: that, for a time, the Pilgrims tried a communal socialist arrangement, that they found it not only unworkable but conducive to quarrels and conflict, and that they rejected in in favor of private property: which proved at the same time economically more viable and better suited to domestic tranquility.
Sep '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
Its a twofer today, this wonderful piece from Paul and the news that Angelina Jolie is so upset with Thanksgiving that she leaves the continent and refuses to celebrate it. I think we should help Angelina by refusing to contribute any dollars toward her movies lest we encourage decadent PilgrimoImperialistHollyWeirdMassCulture.
Its just vial.
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
Paul A. Rahe
the piece ... in Pravda on the Hudson ... deliberately obscures what is crystal clear from the testimony of William Bradford, the colony's governor: that, for a time, the Pilgrims tried a communal socialist arrangement, that they found it not only unworkable but conducive to quarrels and conflict, and that they rejected in in favor of private property: which proved at the same time economically more viable and better suited to domestic tranquility. ·
This was exactly my reaction: how can they successfully obfuscate when we have the direct, unambiguous testimony of William Bradford, writing from firsthand knowledge? Here's a screenshot of much of the relevant text from Of Plymouth Plantation just to show the words in the book itself. I apologize if this looks weird or is unreadable. If so, perhaps Diane can just delete it.
In the meantime I want to point out that I find it interesting that libs are salivating at the prospect of debunking the debunkers on this point to prove that socialism was indeed favorably regarded by our colonial ancestors. Chew on that as you contemplate liberals denying they pine after socialism, Communism, or whatever you want to call it.
Edited on Nov 25, 2010 at 5:58pmRe: America’s First Socialist Republic
David Limbaugh
Paul A. Rahe
the piece ... in Pravda on the Hudson ... deliberately obscures what is crystal clear from the testimony of William Bradford, the colony's governor: that, for a time, the Pilgrims tried a communal socialist arrangement, that they found it not only unworkable but conducive to quarrels and conflict, and that they rejected in in favor of private property: which proved at the same time economically more viable and better suited to domestic tranquility. ·
This was exactly my reaction: how can they successfully obfuscate when we have the direct, unambiguous testimony of William Bradford, writing from firsthand knowledge? Here's a screenshot of much of the relevant text from Of Plymouth Plantation just to show the words in the book itself. I apologize if this looks weird or is unreadable. If so, perhaps Diane can just delete it.
· Nov 25 at 5:54pm
Edited on Nov 25 at 05:58 pm
Thanks, David, for the screenshot. It is nice to be able to display the evidence. I must learn how to create such a thing.
May '10
Re: America’s First Socialist Republic
We must not forget that the pilgrims were idealistic Europeans, but their children, born in America, were less religious and more ambitious, quickly realizing that America was a place where things were possible.