ctlaw · February 26, 2012 at 11:55pm

Unfortunately, an otherwise decent movie was ruined by gratuitous anti-semitism of the new left Jeremiah Wright-David Duke hybrid variety.

The lead bad guy is a Russian speaking Jew (oddly named Christo) in the Ukraine whose specialty is smuggling drugs from Mexico into the into the US (at least he did not confess to developing the AIDS virus to target blacks). The scene introducing him shows him as a hook-nosed, snaggle-toothed, import from a Goebbels poster speaking with a New York Jewish accent. Late in the film, it is gratuitously announced, by an American interrogator, that Christo is Jewish (more below).

The other lead bad guy is Christo's childhood friend (unclear whether he also was Jewish) who is now a Chechen terrorist leader (having adopted the nomme de guerre "Abu Shamal"). Abu Shamal is purported to be a convert to Islam (although it is unclear whether he is sincere).

The main actual Muslim characters in the film are innocent looking Filipinos (stereotypes of people intimidated/duped into their roles rather than more active intellectual participants) who are used by Abu Shamal to smuggle suicide bomb vests into the US via Christo's smuggling routes. Abu Shamal conspicuously does not join in their Islamic prayers, thus further drawing his conversion into doubt (originally hinted at by Christo mockingly addressing him by his Russian name).

In the scene where the interrogator notes Christo's Jewishness relative to the Muslim nature of Chechen terrorists, Christo goes into an odd soliloquy about some sort of yin-yang relationship with Abu Shamal since their childhood in which America is now in the middle. Because this dates back to their childhood, it must be Christo's Jewishness rather than his friend's Islam that is the driver. Christo also appears to not well hold his Russian accent, sounding more and more New Yorker during the course of the interrogation. Again, this seems in line with much modern anti-Semitism wherein Islamic terrorism is asserted as encouraged by Jews.

Christo's Jewishness added nothing to the film. If anything its gratuitous addition only created confusion.

Comments:


Michael Kellogg
Joined
Dec '10
Michael Kellogg

Good grief, Christo being a Jew may not have added anything to the movie's story, but figuring the worst and getting upset about it seems over-the-top to me.  When you make an argument that the same movie portrays the Filipino's as basically slaves of the white bad guys, you cross over into ridiculous.

The movie was heart-pounding and portrayed the SEALs as the heroes that we know they are.  Period.  It celebrates their professionalism and the sacrifices they and their families make on our behalf.  I heartily recommend the film.

Roberto
Joined
Mar '11
Roberto

Sandy

Roberto

You have a strong tolerance for slander. I take an accusation of anti-semitism very seriously indeed and I require a serious accusation to have strong proof to substantiate it. 

It is indeed a serious charge, and as I have said, I can't yet have an opinion on its substance.  I think that "slander" is a bit strong, though, to describe what is intended to be a serious criticism of a film in a private forum. 

You are correct to recognize the fact that this accusation was made in a private forum, it is the only ameliorating circumstance saving its' author from a more grave censure. 

Pointing to my accusation of  "slander" as strong is merited, I do not make such a statement cavalierly. The individual writing under the nom de plume of ctlaw has made statements that are arrogant, narcissistic and grossly insulting. 

I have no quarrel with this. I revel in every citizen in our nation saying what is on their mind. Yet I reserve the right to hold in contempt those who make adolescent accusations rooted in ephemera. 

CoolHand
Joined
Dec '10
CoolHand

[Comment redacted by editor]

You editors are awful damned selective about what you redact and what you leave in place.

In this case, you leave in place pants wetting and idiotic comparisons to neoNazis and other racists, while you redacted a post which contained snark and a G-rated animated gif.

What exactly are your priorities here guys?

Jackasses the lot of you, if you ask me.

Edited on February 27, 2012 at 10:42pm
gkstuart
Joined
Feb '12
gkstuart

What a bunch of hogwash.  I would never have remembered this detail of the interrogation scene until this post brought it up.  Now, thinking back to what I was thinking when I watched it, my impression was Senior Chief was trying to say "you are Jewish, shouldn't it bother you that you are working with an Islamist?"

I didn't make the "oh, a bad guy is Jewish therefore all Jews are bad guys" connection because it isn't there.

I loved this movie.  It's not anti-Semitic.  It's about the sacrifices the SEALs and their families make and the sheer awesomeness of our warriors.  

Sheesh.


Joined
May '11
ctlaw
Albert Arthur: I disagree strongly with ctlaw. The reference to Christo being Jewish was not spoken as an accusation, a la "you're an evil Jew." It was a question: "Why are you working with this guy? Aren't you Jewish?" Far from libeling all Jews as bad guys, it pointed out how abnormal it was for this one Jewish man to be working with an Islamist. Or is it antisemitic to say that it's odd for a Jewish man to be helping a Jihadi? 

You are grossly mischaracterizing my position.

I never said the line was accusatory. To the contrary, I pointed out that the decision to choose to identify the character as Jewish was gratuitous. The fact that it was cemented in a 5-second near throwaway line, highlights the lack of necessity.


Joined
May '11
ctlaw
Roberto The individual writing under thenom de plume of ctlaw has made statements that are arrogant, narcissistic and grossly insulting. 

Please elaborate.


Joined
May '11
ctlaw
David Williamson: I'm offended the villain isn't English - he usually is. · 12 hours ago

Don't the Brits have a saying like: "Blame it on Nigel"? This indicates that, in an American movie,  the guy who sounds most British is the villain.

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

Percival: Gee, ctlaw, if you are going to work that hard at being offended, I wouldn't want to take it away from you.

There is literally as much made of Christo never having seenStar Trekthan there is about his Jewish heritage.  My grandmother never watchedStar Trek, therefore the movie-makers are saying that my grandmother must have been in league with Chechen terrorists?

Pfui.  If you honestly think that this was anti-Semitic, then why did none of the liberal movie critics pick that ball up and run with it? · 22 hours ago

Percival, liberals are the last defenders of Jews nowadays.  This is  not changed by the fact that the majority of Jews are liberals.  The Left long ago accepted the post-colonialist view of Israel, and also the view that moneymakers, especially financiers, especially Jewish financiers, are dirty.

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

katievs: I don't call every movie with a corrupt bishop or a faithless priest or a drunk Irishman, or whatever, anti-Catholic.

Are there no criminal Jews in the world?  

If a Jew is portrayed in an unflattering light, must it be motivated by antisemitism? · 18 hours ago

Edited 15 hours ago

katievs, I think the point of the post is not that every unflattering portrayal of Jews is bigoted, but that this particular portrayal - which lacked any apparent justification - is bigoted.

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

CoolHand: Oh FFS.

Normally, I appreciate this place not having smileys, but in this instance, I must supply one of my own:

You sir, need a hobby, other than looking for something to be perpetually butt hurt over.

For cripe's sake . . .

And you need to read a history of the Jews before you comment ignorantly.  I recommend Paul Johnson's history.  For a shorter work, try Bernard Lewis's Semites and Anti-Semites.

Or you can keep yourself ignorant and just play with pictures and use immortal phrases such as "FFS" and "butt hurt."

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello
Sandy: Not having seen the film I cannot offer an opinion on ctlaw's judgment, but I find some of the comments here disturbing, and I think that ctlaw deserves praise for the patience and civility of his answers, in each of which he tries to respond calmly and with reason.  Silly, snarky, and ad hominem comments, such as "if you are going to work that hard at being offended, I wouldn't want to take it away from you," and "No it was an utterly trivial and minor plot point that you are obsessing over for no rational reason. You are being silly," and "OMG! A Jew! And he's a criminal! OMG!" and "What other religions and peoples are exempt from villain roles? Just so I know the ground rules from now on," --these should have no place in reasoned discourse. · 13 hours ago

Amen.  For a group of people who get upset every time someone on MSNBC says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," it is striking how little fair and thoughtful consideration is being given.

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

TO ALL CONSERVATIVES:

It should not strain credibility to argue that a leftist screenwriter or director slipped a piece of propaganda into an otherwise non-leftist movie.  

I'm encouraged that so many commenters here said they never even noticed the language criticized by ctlaw, but consider two points:  (1) some will notice, especially foreign audiences (who comprise the largest share of the Hollywood market), and (2) propaganda can have an effect through repetition even if it is not consciously recognized.  

Finally, consider that this piece of propaganda changes everything about how we are supposed to understand America's enemies.  The movie projects the message that our war with Islamists is not actually with Muslims - it's with Jews.

Rather a large problem, wouldn't you say?

If someone said the Christians were the main bad guys standing behind the Islamists, you might be a little bothered?

Edited on February 28, 2012 at 3:29am
CoolHand
Joined
Dec '10
CoolHand

Leporello

CoolHand: Oh FFS.

Normally, I appreciate this place not having smileys, but in this instance, I must supply one of my own:

You sir, need a hobby, other than looking for something to be perpetually butt hurt over.

For cripe's sake . . .

And you need to read a history of the Jews before you comment ignorantly.

OK, try this one on for size.

Is it anti-Semitic if nobody but the anti-anti-Semite brigade notices?

Lookit, you guys can feel however you like, but you have to see it from our perspective for a moment.

I did not take that line like you did.  In fact, nobody here who has seen the movie and not read your post beforehand took it like that.

When you flap your arms and make a big scene over nothing, you look just as foolish as Juan Williams or any of the other race hustlers who purport to discern "racist dog whistles" in everything that Republicans say.

That's not helping your cause, it's making your cause look foolish and/or worthless.

Wait to cry wolf until there is actually something with teeth to be seen.


Joined
Feb '12
prometheus

Reading this post, I was reminded of Billy Crystal's Christian Bale intro at the Oscars last night where he intoned, "A dark knight, an American psycho [and] a charismatic crack addict."  Then he said something along the lines of "you can vote for them on Tuesday."  Granted, this was less than 15 seconds of a three hour broadcast.  Harping on it would no doubt be interpretted by the intellectually lazy as "missing the whole point" of the Oscars.  No doubt some would note that the Oscar ceremony is made possible by the fine work of the Navy Seals and, by golly, they pray for them every night so how dare I take issue with Mr. Crystal (their reasoning, not mine).

But you know what?  It was gratuitous anti-conservative invective.  It had nothing to do with the ceremony.  It also makes no sense - which makes it lazy.  The audience reaction seemed to say, "I don't understand that joke.  But it made fun of Republicans.  Which is funny.  I think.  Though I don't know why."  I'm not overly sensitive - but I'm also not blind, deaf or dumb to what was going on.

Edited on February 27, 2012 at 11:30pm
RedRules
Joined
Feb '12
RedRules

Well, some good *did* come out of this article. I was compelled to join Ricochet just to posit that the OP is charging at windmills. Or something.  The movie was great and I plan on seeing it again this coming weekend. This is the only movie in several years that brought tears to my eyes (the final scene).

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

CoolHand

Leporello

CoolHand: Oh FFS.

Normally, I appreciate this place not having smileys, but in this instance, I must supply one of my own:

You sir, need a hobby, other than looking for something to be perpetually butt hurt over.

For cripe's sake . . .

And you need to read a history of the Jews before you comment ignorantly.

Lookit, you guys can feel however you like, but you have to see it from our perspective for a moment.

When you flap your arms and make a big scene over nothing, you look just as foolish as... any of the.. race hustlers who purport to discern "racist dog whistles" in everything that Republicans say.

Follow your own logic, then, and  "see it from our perspective."  Do you even know anything about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? 

And no one is arguing that there is anti-Judaism "in everything" the way the left sees racism everywhere.  The comparison here shows that either you didn't read the post or you didn't think about it.

When you respond with expletives ("FFS") and childish pictures, you forfeit the right to call others "foolish."

Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello
RedRules: Well, some good *did* come out of this article. I was compelled to join Ricochet just to posit that the OP is charging at windmills. Or something.  The movie was great and I plan on seeing it again this coming weekend. This is the only movie in several years that brought tears to my eyes (the final scene). · 18 minutes ago

Everyone agrees the movie is good.  The debate here is about one part of the movie that implied that our enemies were not so much the Islamists as the Jews.  The only purpose of this scene was to pass on a piece of leftist, anti-Jewish propaganda.  Naturally, since the movie was about how great our SEALs are, folks were willing to overlook this.  But the message is there, and it's not an insignificant matter at all.

If a televangelist was working hand-in-glove with Islamists, what exactly would the message be?  Would you shrug your shoulders?

Edited on February 28, 2012 at 5:29am
Leporello
Joined
Feb '12
Leporello

prometheus: Reading this post, I was reminded of Billy Crystal's Christian Bale intro at the Oscars last night where he intoned, "A dark knight, an American psycho [and] a charismatic crack addict."  Then he said something along the lines of "you can vote for them on Tuesday."  Granted, this was less than 15 seconds of a three hour broadcast.  Harping on it would no doubt be interpretted by the intellectually lazy as "missing the whole point" of the Oscars.  No doubt some would note that the Oscar ceremony is made possible by the fine work of the Navy Seals and, by golly, they pray for them every night so how dare I take issue with Mr. Crystal (their reasoning, not mine).

But you know what?  It was gratuitous anti-conservative invective.  It had nothing to do with the ceremony.  It also makes no sense - which makes it lazy.  The audience reaction seemed to say, "I don't understand that joke.  But it made fun of Republicans.  Which is funny.  I think.  Though I don't know why."  I'm not overly sensitive - but I'm also not blind, deaf or dumb to what was going on. 

PERFECT ANALOGY.  Thanks.

CoolHand
Joined
Dec '10
CoolHand

Leporello

When you respond with expletives ("FFS") and childish pictures, you forfeit the right to call others "foolish."

Keep porkin' that chicken, sir, you're doing a bangup job of highlighting the most vicious form of antisemitism: the "So vague most people won't even realize that it's supposed to be anti-Semetic" antisemitism.

Meanwhile, Jews and Christians are being slaughtered daily (you know, actually killed in real life, as opposed to being terribly covertly slighted in a fictional movie) in various parts of the world.

Which one are you expending your energy to counter?

The safe and nearly non-existent kind, of course.

How about you let some proportionality seep into your brain for a moment and cogitate on just how useful all this whinging is, and what you could be doing instead.

If protecting Jews and the good standing of their name the world over is your goal, there are myriad more useful and effective things that you could be doing.

Instead, you choose to complain about a single sentence of dialog inside a two hour long movie that was by any measure I know of, epic.

But by all means, whinge on.


Joined
Apr '11
Charles Starnes

For goodness sakes: The title of this post is more inflammatory than any point you raise - not to mention grossly unfair to the movie.

You have one quibble - just that, a quibble - that there may or may not have been a momentary lapse of judgement exhibited by the writers/producers.  I'll be generous and grant you the theoretical plausibility of your point, but I don't think they did.

I saw the movie on Saturday night and loved it - stiff portrayals and all.

I would simply say your point is interesting, but your presentment and defense of it lack a needed sense of proportion.  It's like you're manning a war room in the way you're swatting back any and all comment, and I think it hurts your point. 

I do not say this out of malice, but it makes me very much less inclined to read your posts or comments going forward.

Edited on February 28, 2012 at 12:49am

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