A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Joe Escalante ·
May 22, 2012 at 3:00am
I'm only moderately familiar with the breakaway Society of St. Pius X, but it's fascinating to watch Pope Benedict's efforts to bring this strict, and seemingly noble, order back into the fold with Rome.
I've been called a "St. Pius The Tenther" as a pejorative, so I've looked them up and watched their youtube videos, but I've never met one. Anyone out there had any experience with them? It seems their leader is game for reconciliation, but the other 3 Bishops not so much.
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Jan '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
You may have heard of them last week. They're the group that runs the school that forfeited a baseball game rather than face a team that had a girl on it.
Note the headline: Phoenix Catholic school ... well, not entirely.
Apr '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
It's reconciliation or schism for them at this point. No other pontiff will put this kind of energy into the project, and most of the people who ended up with the SSPX in the first place were disgruntled with the terrible liturgical situation that persisted in the Church for quite some time... but doesn't so much now. If you like traditional liturgy, you no longer have to go to the SSPX to find it, and most of their potential "converts" are finding happy homes at parishes that are incontestably within the Church. Archbishop Fellay knows that this is his last chance to bring his flock home. Most Catholics won't care, but it will be a happy day for the Church if he does.
Mar '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
It appears that their original schism centers on the Second Vatican Council . I would imagine that is no small pill to swallow if they are interested in reconciling. The Vatican has shown no real interest in repudiating the results of Vatican II that I am aware of, I am unsure what there is in this solicitation to tempt this society to reconcile.
Apr '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
It's much more complicated than that. The SSPX doesn't simply reject Vatican II lock, stock and barrel. Most of their concerns were liturgical, and most of those have been resolved. There are also some issues with ecumenism etc, but at the end of the day, I think it's just hard to become team players again after years of being in protest. For a crank like Richard Williamson, it's probably too hard. We'll see whether Fellay is a big enough man to do it.
Most of the people who ended up SSPXers (and I've never been one, btw, but I've met many) were traumatized by all the insanity that followed Vatican II, none of which was mandated by the Council. Clown Masses, pedophile priests, people being denied communion because they wanted to receive it on the tongue... I could go on, but these are the sorts of abuses that drove people out of their regular parishes and into the SSPX, where they felt that the Mass was celebrated respectfully and reverently. Pope Benedict understands what they've suffered, which is why he's worked so hard to reach out.
Feb '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
I don't have as much experience as Rachel Lu seems to with SSPXers, but I would say she has the gist of the situation quite well. Many of these people are strong in their faith and in their love of church. Let us pray for the reunification of the Church in this matter.
Just a note: when I am travelling about and pass churches, I frequently pray for Christian unity, especially when I pass churches. I pray, "Father, may we be one in You as You are in Him, and He is in You," referencing the prayer of Christ before His Passion. I believe that all Christians who are serious about their faith should be serious about Christian unity.
Mar '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
This seems to me the heart of the matter; for when questions such as this arise, when should principle be sacrificed for the sake of unity? Ms. Lu indicates most disputes have been resolved, perhaps so and perhaps not. I imagine those in this society did not lightly take this course when they separated from the Church.
Consider, has change equal to that which made them leave occurred ? Are they justified in principle to return? These attempts to "massage" differences speak more of politics than faith.
Edited on May 22, 2012 at 5:16amJun '10
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Roberto
I imagine those in this society did not lightly take this course when they separated from the Church.
I think in their view they never separated from the Church in the first place. Some might think themselves "more Catholic than the Pope," and a few might think the rest of the Church separated from them, but they definitely seem to consider themselves true Catholics.
May '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
I don't see a reconciliation happening. They have a history of attracting and protecting some rather ugly, anti-semitic people and attitudes. Until very recently one could still go to their bookstores and buy "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Listening to their pronouncements and criticisms of the Roman Church, I get the sense their faith is mostly formalism devoid of an actual spirit of love and respect for their fellow man. They are long on judgementalism, short on forgiveness and respect for sanctity of conscience.
May '10
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Times like this I feel how much more patient and forbearing the Pope is than I am—how admirably full of true fatherly concern.
I gather from my very piecemeal reading on the subject is that the key sticking point is Vatican II's affirmation of religious liberty.
I think there was a time when the "we are the true Church" claim had some plausibility to it. As Rachel Lu says, there was so much craziness going on. But now things have calmed down. There's a new flourishing of orthodoxy and orthopraxy and tradition going on all over the Church.
The Pius Xthers are looking rather high and dry, and odd and unconvincing. They also often come across as unhappy. I so hope they find their way home!
Edited on May 22, 2012 at 6:02amMar '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
A strong charge, you have seen this with your own eyes? It is so?
Apr '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Mama Toad: I don't have as much experience as Rachel Lu seems to with SSPXers, but I would say she has the gist of the situation quite well. Many of these people are strong in their faith and in their love of church. Let us pray for the reunification of the Church in this matter.
Just a note: when I am travelling about and pass churches, I frequently pray for Christian unity, especially when I pass churches...... I believe that all Christians who are serious about their faith should be serious about Christian unity. ·
I agree that unity amongst Christians is a serious and profound goal of the Church; we should not rend the body of Christ. It is my profound hope that we see a union of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches within my lifetime. Unity of Christians with non-Christians, though, is not to be desired. The Church must stand for truth. If "churches" does not include, eg., Unitarians or other obvious non-Christians, or "union" means conversion, then we agree. I do hope that the bulk of SSPX make it back into the Church, but I also hope that Call To Action remains institutionally excluded.
Jun '10
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
KC Mulville: You may have heard of them last week. They're the group that runs the school that forfeited a baseball game rather than face a team that had a girl on it.
Note the headline: Phoenix Catholic school ... well, not entirely.
What if the 2nd-baseman (her) is blocking the base path without the ball in her glove, and without the ball even on the way to her? In that case it might matter to the runner whether it's a boy or a girl blocking his path to a triple. Or if she was the pitcher, what do you do about well-timed beanballs? She knows you can't do a damn thing. By altering the ultimate physical risk players take for playing dirty, it alters the balance of power...even if nothing ever escalates to a fight.
Jan '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
We have a community of Dominican sisters who belong to the SSPX in our region. They stick out like a sore thumb because they wear religious habits instead of pantsuits.
It's important to note that the SSPX isn't actually a schism. Archbishop Lefebvre’s actions in consecrating the successor bishops was schismatic, but that is not the same thing as the group actually being in schism as a group. Undoubtedly, the society lacks canonical status, however.
If I had to bet, I would say that SSPX will be regularised as a personal prelature under Bishop Fellay. Some, maybe most, of the society will follow him but a sizeable faction, including Bishop Williamson, will go sedevacantist.
This may or may not work out well. It could be a real boon for Catholicism in the Church's eldest daughter - France. I have no source or figures for this but as I understand it a sizeable proportion of mass attendees in France are traditionalists, and so are maybe a third of French seminarians .
Jan '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
CAVEAT: If the SSPX is regularised, it is hardly likely to be a harmonious process. You only have to have a cursory glance at the postings of SSPX message boards - and even the theories of some of the SSPX Bishops - to see that their prolonged disobedience has made many of them deranged and prone to conspiracy theories.
But the same can be said for many of the left-liberal Catholic intelligentsia, of course.
Jul '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
The Dominicans are part of SSPX? I thought the "Order of Preachers" were mainstream.
Apr '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Yes, that's going to be the tiresome part if the SSPX is regularized. The media will dig up SSPXers who subscribe to crazy conspiracy theories or have offensive views about Jews and women. (Not hard to do.) Then they'll try to make a scandal out of the thing, as though the Holy Father is personally endorsing all these views just by allowing the people who hold them to be Catholic.
Can you imagine what a field day the press would have if the Church started excommunicating people on the left for holding crazy or offensive views about things that aren't even points of doctrine? If you had to be consistently right and reasonable just to be a good-standing member, it'd be a pretty small church.
Nov '11
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Fake John Galt
The Dominicans are part of SSPX? I thought the "Order of Preachers" were mainstream. · 1 hour ago
The entire order is not part of the SSPX (unless they're hiding it beyond the dreams of the most fervent conspiracy theorist) however it's entirely possible and likely that groups of a religious order would have broken off over the same dispute that lay people and bishops would have.
Mar '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
I was new in the Church, coming in from evangelical Pentecostalism, when I ran into the SSPX people. In their dealings with me, they were responding to the Church in a juridical nature, eg, they were legalistic.
I attended a function in a household and listened. One of the people, an elderly woman, noted that the worst thing to happen was Vatican I when papal infallibility was recognized. Actually, this went hand in hand with the SSPXers denying the ability of a Church council to make binding decisions, which the Church has long recognized.
Accordingly, they were outside of the Catholic Church by their own choice.
I recognized their sorrow and bitterness at the changes, and actually agreed with some of those issues, but I hung on to St Augustine's position: Where Peter is, there is the Church. The SSPX people had abandoned Peter. They had taken the Protestant position by deciding that they, rather than the Church, were in charge.
Can one be Catholic without the pope? Can one be Catholic without adhering to Church council positions? I thought not then, and think not now.
Will they come back? Not all of them....
May '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Roberto
A strong charge, you have seen this with your own eyes? It is so? · 10 hours ago
I saw it on a website of one of their bookstores a few years ago. I tried to find it again to provide the link but it seems they no longer sell it. You can find people online who used to be part of the society who admit as much, though.
May '12
Re: A Soap Opera Of Biblical Proportions: The Return of St. Pius X
Here are some articles about the anti-semitism inherent to the society and how they have consistently produced and disseminated anti-semitic literature.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/summer/beyond-the-bishop
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1201985.htm