A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Ricochet's own Jennifer Rubin has been following the story of Richard Grenell on her Washington Post blog, Right Turn. Richard Grenell was recently hired by the Romney campaign to serve as a spokesman on foreign policy. As luck would have it for a former governor with little foreign policy experience, this former John Bolton advisor is a registered Republican and staunchly opposes the Obama administration's stance on key national security issues. There is only one problem: Mr. Grenell is gay.
Pieces in two conservative publications, the National Review and Daily Caller, reflected the uproar by some social conservatives over the appointment. [UPDATE, 4:30 p.m.: Although Grenell also raised the ire of liberal commentators with now-deleted tweets about certain prominent women, none of the sources I spoke with mentioned the tweets as a factor in his resignation decision.]
In the National Review, Matthew J. Franck wrote late last week: “Suppose Barack Obama comes out — as Grenell wishes he would — in favor of same-sex marriage in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. How fast and how publicly will Richard Grenell decamp from Romney to Obama?"
I believe we can have a rational debate over gay marriage within the conservative sphere without forcing out those who are gay from our movement. This is a shameful moment for us conservatives and I hope we are beginning the process of rejecting such intolerance. While I am saddened that Mr. Grenell decided to resign from the campaign for personal reasons, I am proud that Governor Romney demonstrated the fortitude to stand by his selection of an imminently qualified advisor like Mr. Grenell and did not take the easy way out by bowing to the less savory aspects of social conservatism.
I would like to know if I am alone with my indignation over the treatment of Mr. Grenell and the pressure for him to resign. In the alternative, I would be happy to hear the counterargument if a fellow Ricochetian feels an openly gay man should not be advising on Republican campaign. How should we proceed as a movement? And, a slightly different question, how do you think we will actually proceed as a movement?
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Comments:
Dec '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Nope, you're not alone.
My belief system firmly states that homosexuality is a sinful behavior, but then so is gluttony. I get really annoyed at those who constantly push for advancement of a gay agenda, but I also have encountered a lot of gay people who are talented, thoughtful, pleasant people. I've also encountered a lot of really annoying right wingers. If given the choice, I'd rather work with the more pleasant folks.
Jun '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
You're not alone, and it is shameful. This type of thing is a major reason I left the Republican Party. It saddens me to see that things haven't changed.
Jun '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
What a specious argument! One small thought experiment shows how silly and offensive Franck's reasoning is:
Or maybe this:
Or this:
What an ass.
Edited on May 2, 2012 at 6:45amMar '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Perhaps you might consider contributing to such a conversation by not indulging in outrageous calumnies? Mr. Grenell holds a political position that is strongly at odds with many voters. Next time you deign to burst forth with your indignation perhaps you could find the self-restraint to hold yourself to the actual issue instead of vapid foolishness such as, "forcing out those who are gay".
Aug '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
You're not alone.
Nov '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Yeah, it's this kind of nonsense that made me stop reading NRO.
Being anti-gay is also a loser in the long term for the conservative movement and the Republican party. Young people trend far more libertarian and far more progressive about gays.
Edited on May 2, 2012 at 2:48amMar '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
"There is only one problem: Mr. Grenell is gay."
This is frankly, flatly, false. This isn't a "gay purge". He was pressured to leave because he's a crusader for redifning marriage, against his own party's principles, and the candidate he supposedly represented, and he has a lousy habit of criticizing his bosses when they don't back him on this issue, not because he's a homosexual. He publicly ripped George W. Bush when Dubya didn't support his agenda while he was working for him, and after. Pretty sure there are gays in the GOP that don't rip their party and bosses because they don't agree on the issue, and they're doing just fine. Foreign policy may have been this man's area of expertise, but that always seemed to take a back seat to his cause.
It was a bad idea in the first place to hire such a man. Would you hire someone that mocks you and your organization? This guy erased a bunch of his tweets after it was discovered what a backstabber he was, but it's too late. Too many people saw them.
Dec '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
The Great Adventure!: Nope, you're not alone.
My belief system firmly states that homosexuality is a sinful behavior, but then so is gluttony. I get really annoyed at those who constantly push for advancement of a gay agenda, but I also have encountered a lot of gay people who are talented, thoughtful, pleasant people. I've also encountered a lot of really annoying right wingers. If given the choice, I'd rather work with the more pleasant folks. · 55 minutes ago
Absolutely.
I am pretty agnostic on the issue outside of a procedural concern.
Mar '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
And in the 60's and 70's, they were far more progressive about socialism, drugs, pre-marital sex, divorce... until they grew up and learned the hard way that support for such things is dumb, has real consequences, and that they should have listened to their fuddy duddy elders in the first place. A lot of Reagan's voters in 80 were young Democrats once that learned about reality the hard way.
Changing your party's direction to serve the whims of youth neither serves your country nor your party.
Jul '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
First, I'll roll those dice all day long. Obama wouldn't dream of doing that during the campaign because it would be a massive loser for him politically.
Second, I don't care whether one of Romney's foreign policy advisers is gay.
Third, I disagree with my good internet pal Casey. I don't find anything shameful in the evidence. There are a ton of cultural hot buttons in politics and the fact that this is one is just that: a fact.
We can talk about merit and how such "irrelevancies" shouldn't influence these decisions all day long. It is not necessarily shameful that some folks assert a given behavior is unacceptable.
Speaking of unacceptable, Jen Rubin is smart, funny, and a tad obnoxious: I like her. But she hasn't a clue what sells outside Washington, and her attacks on so-cons are amazingly similar to those she makes on Paulistas.
May '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Roberto
Perhaps you might consider contributing to such a conversation by not indulging in outrageous calumnies? Mr. Grenell holds a political position that is strongly at odds with many voters. Next time you deign to burst forth with your indignation perhaps you could find the self-restraint to hold yourself to the actual issueinstead of vapid foolishness such as, "forcing out those who are gay". · 1 hour ago
And what is that issue? That an advisor on foreign affairs differs from the majority of the Republican Party on one issue which in no way pertains to foreign affairs?
Do we expect every member of the party to be absolutely, 100% straight-line conservative? Of course not, reasonable minds can differ. Do we even expect every member of the party to be against gay marriage? Of course not, again, reasonable minds can differ. It seems to me that the only reason why Mr. Grenell was unacceptable was that he held one heretical view and he happened to be gay.
Jun '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Palaeologus
First, I'll roll those dice all day long. Obama wouldn't dream of doing that during the campaign because it would be a massive loser for him politically.
Second, I don't care whether one of Romney's foreign policy advisers is gay.
Third, I disagree with my good internet pal Casey. I don't find anything shameful in the evidence. There are a ton of cultural hot buttons in politics and the fact that this is one is just that: a fact.
We can talk about merit and how such "irrelevancies" shouldn't influence these decisions all day long. It is not necessarily shameful that some folks assert a given behavior is unacceptable.
You are my favorite person to have disagree with my eminently sensible conclusions.
I'm with Podhoretz on this one. He has a wonderful take on this issue, and his article at Commentary is well worth the read.
Apr '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
There's more than one narrative on this.
It's also been suggested that Grenell has been receiving quite a bit of personal vitriol from the left for other views he holds.
And I know this is a total logical fallacy, but I tend to take what Rubin says with a grain of salt. She's shown she has little respect for social conservatives, and I suspect she'd take the Progressive narrative and run with it because we social conservatives are dumb and stupid and should have just voted for Romney already. Excuse me for my pettiness there.
Nov '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Douglas
Changing your party's direction to serve the whims of youth neither serves your country nor your party. · 59 minutes ago
I suspect in 20 years I'll be proven right. Perhaps much sooner.
Jun '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Palaeologus
Speaking of unacceptable, Jen Rubin is smart, funny, and a tad obnoxious: I like her. But she hasn't a clue what sells outside Washington, and her attacks on so-cons are amazingly similar to those she makes on Paulistas. · 34 minutes ago
It's the voice. I try hard to listen to Left Coast/Right Coast because I like Mickey Kaus so much, but I just can't get past her manner of speaking. Yes, I prefer Kaus' voice to Rubin's. She grates on me that much.
Mar '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Fred Cole
Douglas
Changing your party's direction to serve the whims of youth neither serves your country nor your party. · 59 minutes ago
I suspect in 20 years I'll be proven right. Perhaps much sooner. · 11 minutes ago
I suppose we'll both see, sooner or later.
Jun '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Jonah Goldberg (@JonahNRO) tweeted 2 hours ago:
This from a man - Jonah - who knows Grenell well. I've only met Grenell twice, but each time he was a very professional, passionate defender of the Right. He's a stand-up guy, to boot. John Bolton, our numero uno foreign policy guru, loves him. There's simply no good reason to drive him out. But, as our own Ben Domenech says:
Edited on May 2, 2012 at 6:44amMar '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
C. U. Douglas:
And I know this is a total logical fallacy, but I tend to take what Rubin says with a grain of salt. She's shown she has little respect for social conservatives, and I suspect she'd take the Progressive narrative and run with it because we social conservatives are dumb and stupid and should have just voted for Romney already. o
Rubin is in the "with friends like these..." category.
Jul '11
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
I know a number of gay conservatives. None care about forcing a marriage issue and are greatly concerned with economic issues. They don't care about the military issue as don't ask, don't tell was fine for them. They dislike or despise Obama and do a lot for the GOP. They could care less about anyone else's moral judgment of them and will not impose their moral judgements on others. Probably I'm unpopular with thinking these guys are OK but they're my friends and I welcome their vote this November.
Nov '10
Re: A Shameful Moment for the Conservative Movement
Casey Taylor: Jonah Goldberg (@JonahNRO) tweeted 2 hours ago:
7 minutes ago
Casey, did VP Cheney openly turn on President Bush over their differences on this issue? I have no recollection of his doing that.