A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
You know, I just don't know how I feel about this:
Republican Governor Mitch Daniels has signed Senate Enrolled Act 1 into law in Indiana. The new law allows citizens to use deadly force against police officers they think are illegally entering their homes. Earlier this month, Addicting Info reported that the bill had passed the Senate. Republicans say the bill is designed to keep police safe, but Democrats say the bill will lead to the wanton killing of police officers.
Rep. Craig Fry, a Democrat, says the bill “is going to cause people to die and it’s too late after somebody dies for a jury to sort it out. Somebody’s going to die, whether it’s a police officer or an individual who thinks a police officer is entering their home unlawfully. People are going to die.”
Fry’s colleague, Democratic Rep. Linda Lawson, a former police captain, says the bill would create an “open season on law enforcement,” and it is opposed by “1,250 state police officers and 14,000 men and women in blue, brown and green.”
Perhaps I'm not understanding this correctly. I understand allowing citizens to use deadly force against police officers who are illegally entering their homes--but against police officers who they think are illegally entering their homes?
Does anyone else get this?
- Comment (64)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (6)
Comments:
Jul '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
By the way, I honestly do not care what the law is either. My home is my home and I do not engage in criminal activities so anyone coming in no knock is a criminal first. If it's police making a mistake well then someone's going to be shot if they don't stand down. I'll head off to jail if I'm standing after the smoke clears. That's how strongly I feel this law is correct. My best friend is a cop and he agrees with me here.
Sep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Hundred perfect in agreement with you here, Doc. Why should people whose homes are being broken into have to be more reasonable than those doing the breaking in? In the case Mark mentioned, the woman heard and saw a chainsaw coming through the door! Whether it's police or thugs, people are gonna freak out; why is the onus on them not to make a mistake?
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I read about SWAT teams getting the wrong address on violent raids once a week. It's out of control and the worst part is that when you respond in the way any reasonable person might -- by firing at the armed intruder who has just busted down your door without warning, you can be charged with the worst of crimes.
Just ask Cory Maye, who was sentenced to death for acting in self defense.
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 7:37pmRe: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I wonder if there is a list of all the people wrongly shot and/or killed by SWAT teams who get the wrong address in no-knock raids. There is no justification for this type of careless behavior by law enforcement.
Mar '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
My respect for Daniels... which had been ebbing low of late... just went back up.
Oct '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
I don't remember that the Fourth Amendment has been further modified, but no knock raids and such are strictly forbidden.
Mr. Shotgun is my only recourse when a person breaks down my door. It takes me less than three seconds from my normal reading chair to have Mr. Shotgun in my hands and off the safety. Lacking a polite knock and a presentation of a warrant, that cop will be dead. As dead as if he were some lowlife punk who intended terrorizing my family and robbing us of our possessions and our lives.
Unfortunate if some cop were to die because he or his superiors did not consider the Constitutional consequences, but better him than me.
A tin badge in lieu of a proper warrant and clear identification does not suffice for me to sacrifice my family so some trial lawyer gets a win.
Jun '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
It helps us take back a little liberty. Police may be a little less cavalier about their knock and announce tactics.
Feb '12
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
There's a l0t to this story. In brief: police answered a domestic violence call, but everything had calmed down and the 50ish husband was in the parking lot leaving. He argued with them up to the door, which his wife opened. Teh police wanted to go, he said no and shoved one, he was tasered, sent to the hospital, and charged with assault. The Indiana Supreme Court, overturning ancient precedent and a recent statute, criminalized citizen resistance to illegal police entry. The Statehouse was upset, and passed a new statute with even my liberal state rep. voting for it, despite heavy lobbying and misrepresentation by the police union. Thus, the confusion which gave rise to the post's question.
I and some other profs. sent an unsuccessful amicus brief to the Indiana Supreme Court. It, with other documents, is at:
http://rasmusen.org/special/barnes/
Sep '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Crazy, just crazy. Here in the UK, police knock down doors without warning if they need the element of surprise. If an occupant shoots at them (which rarely happens) the gun will almost certainly be held illegally. The police may be armed if they fear the occupants may be, but they won't use their weapons unless one is drawn on them. Things can get violent, but it is extremely rare that anyone is gravely injured, still less killed, in such a raid. I'm just horrified by the police behaviour you seem to be describing, and some of the reactions to it here.
Sep '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
And in every instance where a civilian is killed by a police officer, there is a full investigation by an independent review body.
Dec '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
The data is in here if you sift some.
Mar '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
What I am afraid about this law is the over use of SWAT teams for minor arrest is bad as it is. Now there will be even more temptation to use them because who is going to fire on a squad of armed men?
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 9:17pmOct '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Nice to know that the bodies of my wife and I would get a formal review before the government concludes that they are right and I was wrong.
We fought a war against England to free us from such arbitrary powers by the King. Now we have a feral government, that is, a once constitutional subservient government, and it now believes that it owns us... as though it were king.
We Americans, at least those of us over 60 years old or so, have no willingness to be subjects once again. And, if you are unaware, the DEA, IRS, Department of Education, and Homeland security, and more coming, now have their own SWAT teams to invade our lives.
Are we waiting until we get stopped by armed soldiers at intersections, as I have experienced in many underdeveloped countries?
We will soon be where you are, if we do not resist.
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 9:42pmNov '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
G. Gordon Liddy famously suggested (and got yelled at for suggesting) you aim at the head, when confronted by this situation. The militarization of police forces is a serious problem, with every rinky-dink government department in the country having its own balaclava-clad SWAT team. Apart from ratcheting away from this trend, it might help if the law more clearly established accountability, i.e. just who would go down if the thing goes south. Cop riots --like Ruby Ridge and Waco-- happen in part when many are involved and no one is clearly in charge. Janet Reno claimed responsibility for Waco in Senate hearings, but the claim was bogus: she accepted nothing; a person of integrity would have made heads roll, or resigned. The law in this area is simply weak, and it is little help to citizens or police officers to put the burden anywhere but on the pertinent authorities.
Feb '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
From what I've read the cops use no knock SWAT tactics against people suspected of misdemeanor level drug offenses hundreds of times a day in the US, and it makes the news only when something really goes wrong.
One of the cases I read about was a man in Utah who was awoken from sound sleep by a SWAT team busting down his door. He killed one cop and wounded several others, but stopped resisting when the police finally bothered to tell him who they were. Of course the state is seeking the death penalty for him.
His suspected crime? He had some pot.
Meanwhile, Charlie Sheen walks around free, despite openly bragging about suitcases full of cocaine. But he can afford a lawyer, unlike that guy in Utah. And as an added insult Utah harassed the family when they attempted to raise money for a defense fund.
To say something is wrong with this picture is a vast understatement.
Sep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Well, that will be a great comfort to the bereaved. I'll bet the State will throw in a really happening funeral, too.
I love England (just look at my Ricochet avatar if you doubt it) but I'm so glad I don't live there.
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 10:08pmSep '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
raycon
Nice to know that the bodies of my wife and I would get a formal review before the government concludes that they are right and I was wrong.
It's extremely rare here for anyone to be shot dead by police. When it happens it's headline news. Police officers have been charged with murder. And searches require a warrant. It sounds like you could do with a bit more of what we have, not less.
Sep '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
dogsbody
Well,thatwill be a great comfort to the bereaved. I'll bet the State will throw in a really happening funeral, too.
I love England (just look at my Ricochet avatar if you doubt it) but I'm so glad I don't live there. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 2 minutes ago
See above. It's you who have a problem with trigger-happy police, not us.
Sep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Gaby Charing
dogsbody
Well,thatwill be a great comfort to the bereaved. I'll bet the State will throw in a really happening funeral, too.
I love England (just look at my Ricochet avatar if you doubt it) but I'm so glad I don't live there. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 2 minutes ago
See above. It's you who have a problem with trigger-happy police, not us. · 4 minutes ago
It's not the propensity to shoot that's the main issue. The main issue is whether the State has the right to invade a peaceful home without warning. The answer in a free society must always be no.
Anyone who seriously doubts this is not a free citizen, but a subject.
Feb '12
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I think this law is a good first step toward making the police accountable for their actions. Stories are legion of police busting down doors, often of the wrong house, without announcing themselves, and shooting innocent homeowners who had the temerity to be holding a gun. Or something that looked like a gun. This law will not prevent cops from shooting innocent homeowners, but it will at least tell them that the law recognizes that the dead guy on the ground was in the right.
It will help further when we start prosecuting the cops who screw up like this, and remove the legal obstacles that usually prevent the wronged homeowners from suing. Then, maybe, cops will learn to knock on the door and say, "this is the police. We have a warrant. Open up or we will break down the door." This may cost a few convictions because drugs may be flushed down the toilet. Oh, well. At least the drugs will have gone down the toilet.