A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
You know, I just don't know how I feel about this:
Republican Governor Mitch Daniels has signed Senate Enrolled Act 1 into law in Indiana. The new law allows citizens to use deadly force against police officers they think are illegally entering their homes. Earlier this month, Addicting Info reported that the bill had passed the Senate. Republicans say the bill is designed to keep police safe, but Democrats say the bill will lead to the wanton killing of police officers.
Rep. Craig Fry, a Democrat, says the bill “is going to cause people to die and it’s too late after somebody dies for a jury to sort it out. Somebody’s going to die, whether it’s a police officer or an individual who thinks a police officer is entering their home unlawfully. People are going to die.”
Fry’s colleague, Democratic Rep. Linda Lawson, a former police captain, says the bill would create an “open season on law enforcement,” and it is opposed by “1,250 state police officers and 14,000 men and women in blue, brown and green.”
Perhaps I'm not understanding this correctly. I understand allowing citizens to use deadly force against police officers who are illegally entering their homes--but against police officers who they think are illegally entering their homes?
Does anyone else get this?
- Comment (64)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (6)
Comments:
Nov '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
The result will be that the police might be more respectful when entering citizens' homes.
Oct '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Doesn't look like that when you actually read the Act. It all comes down to what the defendant "reasonably believes" - which is how self-defence always works.
Feb '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I think the article you read may be blowing it out of proportion; but, if you read the Governor's signing statement you will see he says:
I do not know why the second requirement is not in the bill if the Governor sees this as a two-part test, but it sounds like they do not intend this to be an assault on police officers - as his opposition would like you to think.
Jun '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I don't know that it makes much difference. If a police officer entering a residence by force is depending on the wording of a law to protect him, he's a fool to begin with. After all, anybody can yell "police!" as they break into your home. If you deserve to have police busting down your door, you generally know it. If you don't, then you really don't know who they are.
Aug '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Far too many incidents where the police have entered the wrong home resulting in terrible consequences for all involved. I'd would love to see some additional requirements for police detailing the use of a triple check system to ensure that they are entering the right home in the first place.
May '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Claire, if this single mother had used a gun to protect her child during this appalling incident, do you believe she should have been charged?
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Sounds like she didn't just think they were entering illegally.
But yes (thanks Genferei), it seems "reasonably believes"--stress on "reasonable"--is the key.
May '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sounds like she didn't justthinkthey were entering illegally.
Good point. So you're saying the law would applies in cases where the police are lawfully entering a home but the resident reasonably believes it is unlawful?
Sep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
The word reasonable is what makes the courts a natural arbiter in such cases, and I say okay. There have been so many horror stories of Cops-like erroneous forced entries in recent years that this kind of bill seemed inevitable. ... I remember my dad telling me when I was in fourth grade and had been caught breaking into a vacant house in the neighborhood that if I entered someone else's home and got blown away in the process that I'd have no one to blame but myself. So I took that to heart, whether the guys are cops or bad guys. (I'm guessing that it's another unintended consequence of the so-called war on drugs.)
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sounds like she didn't justthinkthey were entering illegally.
But yes (thanks Genferei), it seems "reasonably believes"--stress on "reasonable"--is the key. · 18 minutes ago
Jan '12
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
The law is a mistake. There is no question that private citizens possess the inherent right of self defense, but that said, if a police officer is entering your home it is not for the purpose of killing, raping or robbing you. If you comply and submit, you will have ample opportunity to seek redress in the courts.
On the other hand, police officers have the affirmative duty to go in harm’s way – to place themselves in a position of risk where those they confront may – and frequently do – attempt to harm them. They have the right to protect themselves – and that right does not require them to wait until the opponent takes the first shot. The Constitutional standard provides that a law enforcement officer may use deadly force when necessary to prevent an imminent risk of serious injury to self or others. Note the preemptive quality to that – necessary because the realities of physical factors such as action/reaction, wounding effectiveness, physiological issues dictate that the officer who waits for certainty that an attempt to harm is attempted may very well be harmed or killed before he can do anything to protect himself, or others, from it.
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Mark Wilson
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Sounds like she didn't justthinkthey were entering illegally.
Good point. So you're saying the law would applies in cases where the police are lawfullyentering a home but the resident reasonably believes it is unlawful? · 28 minutes ago
I don't know--that's why I'm asking what this means, what it's meant to mean, and how it's apt to be interpreted. I suspect the number of cases that would meet that definition--(the entry is lawful, but the resident reasonably believes it isn't)--would be very small.
May '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I tend to think this law should be on the books in every state. With the advent of no-knock raids, this provides a defense for law-abiding citizens.Reason did an extensive review of the Cory Maye case. A wikipedia primer is below.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye
May '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Postin on iPad really screws up the paragraph breaks. Apologies if the previous post is unclear.
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Isn't this law aimed at deterring paramilitary "no-knock" entries into citizens' homes?
There are chilling cases detailed at the Cato Institute of citizens who, after being raided by masked police providing no advance identification, are prosecuted for firing on the officers they reasonably took for dangerous home invaders. In some cases, resisting the unannounced assault was the only "crime" documented by the home-invasion/search.
Sep '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I agree with UreyP3. If police act unlawfully or use excessive force or unnecessary intimidation, redress should lie through the courts. A householder should not be entitled to use force against police officers if he knows they are police, unless he has reasonable grounds for fearing imminent serious injury to someone in the house. And if the police are regularly abusing the right to enter people's homes, they will learn the error of their ways from the courts, who in an appropriate case can award punitive damages, i.e. take them to the cleaners.
Mar '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
Exactly so Mr. Savage. This is yet another consequence of this disastrous "War on Drugs". The logic is put forward that "no-knock" raids are necessary in order to prevent the destruction of evidence.
There have been far too many cases of citizens who have had law enforcement mistakenly break into their homes and when they panic lethal force is used by the authorities. This law may not be the appropriate solution, but it is addressing a real problem.
Jul '11
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
I am pretty sure where I live the cops don't even dream of busting in casually. Any law that lessens the police state is fine by me. This is all about no knock as stated above. I could care less if it's a cop or not, you come in my house by breaking in I will get the drop on you and if you make any funny moves then you die. These no knock break ins are a lethal mistake often and anyone who supports their use is a fool for not realizing we step ever closer to jackbooted thugs on every corner.
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 6:59pmSep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
But this begs the question: how does a person know that the people breaking through the door are police? If I were at home with a (hypothetical) family and an armed group started breaking in, I wouldn't care whether they were yelling "police" or not--and I shouldn't. My first duty is to protect my family and myself.
My second problem is with your last phrase: "comply and submit." That is not the first impulse of a free man (or woman). I will not submit to force unless I know I'm in the wrong.
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 7:13pmJan '12
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
My response above was limited to 200 words per the posting rules here. I have a more extensive response on the member feed, for those interested:
http://ricochet.com/member-feed/Indiana-s-New-Home-Is-Your-Castle-Law
Edited on March 24, 2012 at 7:10pmSep '10
Re: A Man's Home is His Castle--or Open Season on Cops?
If your spouse or child is dead from a police bullet, no amount of legal redress can ever suffice.
On the other hand, I think "comply and submit" would be an interesting motto for the side of a police cruiser.