A Change Is Coming?
This poll indicates a majority of Americans expect major political uprisings in the US in the next ten years. What say you? If you agree, are you looking forward to them as pro-liberty or fearing them as pro-socialist? Do you think the likelihood is the same regardless of who wins with the other side protesting the direction of government?
My gut feeling is if things don't change in 2012, we're going to see the Tea Party take the next step toward forming a third party and leading to protest. I don't see them remaining patient if the GOP regains power and tries an incremental approach to changing the federal bureaucracy. It would also seem more likely for the Tea Party to remain a peaceful populist movement whereas that doesn't seem as certain with the hard Left.
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Comments :
Dec '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
I would say a lot depends on what people mean by the term "uprising". In my view, the Tea Party is already an uprising - albeit a peaceful populist one, as you've termed it.
On the flip side, the disgraceful display in Wisconsin earlier this year was also an uprising, much less peaceful and pretty much the definition of mob behavior. I think the 10 year concept is a canard - it's already happening.
May '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
So far, the Tea Party has shown plenty of partisan smarts. There's no need to replace the Republican Party, as long as primary elections remain free and open. (O, how I wish both parties would see more vigorous primary challenges. That is a consummation devoutly to be wished!)
If the Left coalition collapses--if, in other words, the Marxist/Keynesian belief in the efficacy of the omni-intervening government goes the way of the dodo and the Euro--then we'll see a disappearance of the Democratic party, and the then larger GOP will split into its social conservative and libertarian halves. (That's a pretty thought.) That's the more likely scenario--not that I say it's likely; only more likely--than a premature splitting of Establishment GOP and Tea Partiers.
And, by the way, Whiskey Sam: is that really a smoking monkey in your avatar???
Jul '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Fredösphere: So far, the Tea Party has shown plenty of partisan smarts. There's no need to replace the Republican Party, as long as primary elections remain free and open. (O, how I wish both parties would see more vigorous primary challenges. That is a consummation devoutly to be wished!)
If the Left coalition collapses--if, in other words, the Marxist/Keynesian belief in the efficacy of the omni-intervening government goes the way of the dodo and the Euro--then we'll see a disappearance of the Democratic party, and the then larger GOP will split into its social conservative and libertarian halves. (That's a pretty thought.) That's the more likely scenario--not that I say it's likely; only more likely--than a premature splitting of Establishment GOP and Tea Partiers.
And, by the way, Whiskey Sam: is that really a smoking monkey in your avatar??? · Sep 2 at 7:03am
It is indeed. It was from an old story years ago about some monkeys living in a Hindu temple that had picked up the habit from tourists discarding their cigarette butts.
Dec '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
I have to go with TGA on this one. There is already an uprising on both sides. One side calmly telling the other "take your hand out of my pocket" and the other telling the one loudly (and with many bongos) "it's my right to rob you." The topics about Locke being untaught and unlearned are brilliantly on display in this scenario.
Sep '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
On more the London Riot format (arguably political), I think it is likely that there will be riots of this sort in American Cities as the inevitable crowding-out effects of government over-spending take hold. One big difference here in the US is that property owners can defend their property even with guns and not automatically face arrest as they would in the UK. So we are much better situated to keep them from growing out of control. That being said, I suspect cities like Philadelphia, Detroit, San Francisco, Oakland, Cleveland, LA, and numerous other cities wilI experience them to one degree or another. Feckless leadership will determine how bad they get.
May '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
We will know when California finally can't meet it's "obligations", the Feds say, "Go pound sand", and the illegals march in the streets with their Mexican flags.
The results of that conflagration will tell a lot...
Aug '11
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Sadly, this is untrue. The overwhelming majority of states have laws that make the use of a firearm to protect property a felony. Taking your gun out onto the streets to mete out vigilante justice will put you in prison, while the looters walk free.
Aug '11
Re: A Change Is Coming?
I think it's deja vu and the 60's are back but with a twist...now we have a far right that is as interested in protesting as the far left. Throw in special interest groups and we have the making of a very turbulent decade ahead of us. Those people who want to hold hands and sing Kumbaya won't know what hit them. And here I thought I was going to have a quiet retirement.
Nov '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Have you read Mark Steyn's latest book, "After America"? Good read, and it addresses exactly this question.
I (ripping off Steyn) think that our window is closing. The only thing that will head off massive unrest is if we fast-track the shrinking of the bureaucracy and the programs that foster dependency. If we can do that, we can bring our debt under control in time to stave off economic ruin.
But realistically, who believes that's in the cards? Our constitutional system was designed to make the ship of state hard to turn, and while that was genius back in the day, it's working against us now. We've allowed ourselves to drift too far to the left, and we may not be able to course-correct as quickly as we need to. Worse, the average American seems to approve of big-government programs that benefit him directly.
If our economy collapses and our dependent classes aren't serviced, I see violent uprisings and some sort of authoritarian response from the states/fed that can't be predicted. And it won't really matter whether or not the Tea Parties split off an form a third party.
May '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
The Left takes advantage of bureaucracy, political correctness, and the innate civility of the Right. The Left is going to push the Tea Partists too far. People will only stand for being pushed so hard for so long, before they start to push back.
Have any Republicans in congress pushed back against the outrageous slanders shooting forth from the Congressional Black Caucus like sparks off a catherine wheel? No.
Can we really expect a party running on the platform of "Give us back the senate and White House, we promise we won't piss it away this time" to deliver when (please God) the Dems get thrown out in 2012? Almost certainly not.
It's going to get ugly.
Nov '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Tom Paine
Sadly, this is untrue. The overwhelming majority of states have laws that make the use of a firearm to protect property a felony. Taking your gun out onto the streets to mete out vigilante justice will put you in prison, while the looters walk free. · Sep 2 at 5:51pm
Tom, I think that's two different things. Wandering out into the street to mete out vigilante justice is punishable, and should be. But if someone forcibly invades your premises, more often than not, defending yourself with lethal force is legal (and should be).
And Ross, a thousand apologies for being pedantic, but you should never use a firearm to defend just your property. Let the scumbag alone and call the Fuzz, you probably needed a new TV anyway. However, if the prospect of violence arises, well.....
Oct '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Re, Starve the Beast.. In the event of civil unrest and random violence, calling the Fuzz will be pointless. All a matter of scale.
Should the police be overwhelmed as they may very well be in that situation an armed neighborhood response would likely get a pass and a thank you.
However, it could also turn on a dime in todays think.
May '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
The last elections were the beginning of a final standoff. What is America? That's the question on the table. We are no longer debating specific policies so much as whether or not the Constitution remains relevant to modern American society.
There are too many citizens who no longer identify with our founding principles. There are too many illegitimate agencies, laws and practices already in place. There is too great a cultural chasm between neighbors.
This country won't hold together another fifty years. I'll be surprised if it lasts twenty. I suspect Steyn is right: America's most fundamental fate will be decided in 2012.
The worst scenario I can imagine is that our union will continue on its present course — that America will endure in name but lose its soul. Lemonade stands will be shut down, entrepreneurs blocked at every turn, corporations melted into government while claiming to be private, kids educated against their parents, religion and political opposition sidelined and silenced... while Republicans insist America is still strong and we can turn this thing around. Orwellian.
I'm not proposing we give up. I'm saying we need more than a plan. We need a miracle.
Nov '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
wilber forge: Re, Starve the Beast.. In the event of civil unrest and random violence, calling the Fuzz will be pointless. All a matter of scale.
Should the police be overwhelmed as they may very well be in that situation an armed neighborhood response would likely get a pass and a thank you.
However, it could also turn on a dime in todays think. · Sep 2 at 7:14pm
Agreed, Wilber. The day may come when well-armed neighborhoods are a primary unit of public security. But that's when things turn Mad Max. Please God, it doesn't come to that.
Meanwhile, we have the incredible luck to live in a secure, stable, wealthy country. And when I go to sleep tonight, I'll be thinking one of two things:
You know what? I'll buy a new TV.
Dec '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
In truth, this is closer to the founding than our over-bureaucratized nation as it is now.
Oct '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
RE, Starve the Beast, Perhaps there should be a little more faith in the depth of the human soul prior to the broad brush of the Mad Max simplification.
The armed citizen response during the L.A. riots are an example to a peacefull end.
On the other hand. There appears to be a large segment of the population that would rather patch a few holes in the wall and shampoo the carpet rather than let themselves or their families feel violated and less secure.
This comment thread in overall does address the unlikely. For now.
As for buying a new TV. Reminds one of a somebody that would not carry a firearm while camping in Grizzly country. When asked what would you do if confronted ? The reply was, throw rocks and yell. Good luck with that....
Perhaps it works out for you that Grizzlies just may allow you to upgrade the TV until next time.
No disrespect intended. God bless and good luck...
Oct '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
The King Prawn
In truth, this is closer to the founding than our over-bureaucratized nation as it is now. · Sep 2 at 8:31pm
Truly spoken. Sadly seldom appreciated.
Nov '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
wilber forge:
As for buying a new TV. Reminds one of a somebody that would not carry a firearm while camping in Grizzly country. When asked what would you do if confronted ? The reply was, throw rocks and yell. Good luck with that....
Wilber, I agreed 100% with your post up to this line - yes, good point, there are incidents all the time where armed citizens defend themselves against predators of the two-legged variety. Do you get First Freedom (the NRA magazine)? There's a monthly column called "Armed Citizen" full of them.
But what's the thing with the bears?
Jun '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
In America, a nation of farmers has become a nation of wage slaves. That's central to the change in attitude we see from the average man and woman. You can't starve an independent farmer out. You can't just nibble his livelihood to death, bit by bit from afar. You have to burn a farmer out, and when you do that you've just declared war on him. You've thrown the frog into the boiling water, and that frog's going to jump back in your face.
Nov '10
Re: A Change Is Coming?
Aaron Miller: The last elections were the beginning of a final standoff. What is America? That's the question on the table. We are no longer debating specific policies so much as whether or not the Constitution remains relevant to modern American society.
There are too many citizens who no longer identify with our founding principles. There are too many illegitimate agencies, laws and practices already in place. There is too great a cultural chasm between neighbors.
This country won't hold together another fifty years. I'll be surprised if it lasts twenty. I suspect Steyn is right: America's most fundamental fate will be decided in 2012.
[snip]
Much agreed, Aaron. Well said. I think the path America is on is toward a kind of Latin American existence. A heartwarming sign of this is that during our lifetime I'm certain we will see the emergence of kidnappings -- kidnappings of the affluent (or "affluent") -- the way they do in Mexico. (And in large part we have the rank idiocy of the open-border libertarians to thank for this. You guys are so cool n' sophisticated n' stuff).