11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Troy Senik ·
Nov 9, 2011 at 7:34pm
Thanks, as always, to all the Ricochet members who joined in on the live chat for tonight's CNBC GOP presidential debate. The good news is that a great time was had by all in the chat, as per usual. The bad news is that there won't be any compensatory damages available for the fact that you had to sit through the debate.
This was decidedly not one for the ages, so I'll keep the recap brief:
- CNBC did the seemingly impossible and put on perhaps the worst debate of the cycle. The main interlocutors, John Harwood and Maria Bartiromo, were instinctively unable to keep from addressing each of the candidates as if they had just broken the neighbor's window with their baseball. The guest panelists (with the exception of Tea Party godfather Rick Santelli) added nothing, and the biggest abomination of the format was that Jim Cramer was given an open microphone and was not given an industrial-strength dosage of Adderall.
- As for the candidates, the also-rans did nothing to distinguish themselves. No one knew that Jon Huntsman, Rick Santorum, or Michele Bachmann was in the room. Everyone knew that Ron Paul was there, but no one much cared.
- Mitt Romney had a relatively strong evening. He hit one out of the park early in the night when he got a question about the social responsibilities of business, one of the rare instances where his experience in corporate America didn't seem like it was being invoked as a lazy alternative to formulating a policy argument. He was weak, however, in defending his hard-line against China's currency manipulation (an argument his heart is clearly not in) and gave a risible answer to the flip-flop charges, stating that the length of his marriage, his loyalty to his church, and his long tenure with Bain prove that he is a man of principle. All things considered, it was what we've grown used to from Romney -- a performance that was workmanlike, essentially unmemorable, and didn't do an iota of damage to his campaign.
- Newt Gingrich was on fire once again, particularly when he dressed down Maria Bartiromo for giving each of the candidates 30 seconds to lay out their alternative visions for health care. It was the best moment of the night and further proof that the Newt boomlet is real.
- Herman Cain was something of an afterthought tonight, and seemed off of his game until the last quarter of the debate or so, when he scored some points with a reference to Minority Leader Pelosi as "Princess Nancy" and got in an impromptu dig at Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. His base has clearly retained their loyalty, however. The audience jumped on each of his applause lines, even when they were relatively weak, and Bartiromo was repeatedly booed for bringing up the sexual harassment allegations.
- Rick Perry had a very, very bad night. He hit a new bottom with his worst moment of the campaign so far, when he failed to remember the third part of a three-part plan for government reform (an incoherent tailspin that ended with what is sure to be a viral "Oops"). Rather than pivoting to something else, Perry probed the recesses of his memory onstage, an exercise that -- with the CNBC moderators piling on -- seemed to go on for eons.
The upshot: This race continues apace. Look for Romney to stay solid, Newt to continue his uptick in the polls, and Perry to drop off even further. As for Cain, it looks as if his fate will be sealed -- one way or the other -- far from the debate stage.
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Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened.
Nov '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Peter Robinson: Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened. · Nov 9 at 7:48pm
Oh, it happened...
Edited on Nov 9, 2011 at 8:00pmMay '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
He had a cringe-inducing memory slip but interestingly, I thought his performance the rest of the debate was actually improved.
Peter Robinson: Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened. · Nov 9 at 7:48pm
Apr '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Peter Robinson: Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened. · Nov 9 at 7:48pm
Oh, don't worry. You'll see it (you own a television, and will switch it on in the next two months, right?)
One thing that came up after the debate was that the students in the audience moved from polling 25% for Mitt to 40% afterwards, at least some of which seems likely to be disingenuous. Perry's apparently always been quite influenced by the audience, and this was a tough crowd for him.
Apr '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
pensworth: He had a cringe-inducing memory slip but interestingly, I thought his performance the rest of the debate was actually improved.
Peter Robinson: Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened. · Nov 9 at 7:48pm
Nov 9 at 8:13pm
It really wasn't helped by Ron Paul being a false friend and confusing him while he tried to work his memory.
May '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
James Of England
pensworth: He had a cringe-inducing memory slip but interestingly, I thought his performance the rest of the debate was actually improved.
Peter Robinson: Thanks, Troy. I'd had a couple of obligations I was unable to duck, so I missed our live chat. Now I feel absolved.
Perfectly incredible to suppose that Perry turned in an even worse performance than in his debates in Orlando and Hanover, but if Troy says so, it happened. · Nov 9 at 7:48pm
Nov 9 at 8:13pm
It really wasn't helped by Ron Paul being a false friend and confusing him while he tried to work his memory. · Nov 9 at 8:18pm
I wonder if Romney was being sincere when he suggested the EPA as the third agency. It sounds like something Perry would favor abolishing and Romney suggested it below the level of a normal speaking voice. Maybe he was trying to friendly. Or, more plausibly, he was overwhelmed by the awkwardness of the moment.
Perry should have gone with it though, if only to give John Harwood a seizure. He could have "clarified" after the debate.
Edited on Nov 9, 2011 at 8:37pmMar '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
I think everyone witnessing Perry's moment, on stage and off, were cringing and feeling bad for the guy. Romney tried to help a couple of times, not only suggesting EPA as third one but reminding him of the second department Commerce when he couldn't even recall that. I sincerely doubt anyone was celebrating his collapse but instead thinking "there but for the grace of God go I."
Dec '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
I missed it as well, Peter. But, I clicked on NRO's corner almost immediately after the debate and the video of Perry's meltdown was already posted there. There's no way even I could attempt a defense of what he did tonight.
Apr '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Indeed. I genuinely hope that this isn't a huge inflection point in the campaign, as Perry should be a standard bearer for the party for a while, and if this was his Dean Scream, his utility in that position would be sharply limited. It'd be a terrible and unfair end to a distinguished career, as all of these scandals, from Muskie tears to brainwashing, tend to be.
Dec '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
I thought this was Perry's best debate to date. It's unfortunate that it was marred by such an uncomfortable moment, and that so many are willing to write him off for something that can happen to anyone. That moment aside, he was more focused, more articulate, and more substantive than in prior debates. This outing should have given him something solid to build upon, but instead it may end him. We have an odd sense of proportion that a simple memory slip can do so much damage when other missteps are so readily forgiven.
Dec '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Freeven
I thought this was Perry's best debate to date. It's unfortunate that it was marred by such an uncomfortable moment, and that so many are willing to write him off for something that can happen to anyone. That moment aside, he was more focused, more articulate, and more substantive than in prior debates. This outing should have given him something solid to build upon, but instead it may end him. We have an odd sense of proportion that a simple memory slip can do so much damage when other missteps are so readily forgiven. · Nov 9 at 10:22pm
I played the video for my completely apolitical wife who called it his "Dean Scream" moment. [Insert CoC violation here.]
Aug '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
This was the first-- and, thus far, the only-- debate through which I've had to struggle to maintain interest. Or consciousness. And failed. On both counts. The only element that did not seem a plodding rehash of what we've heard and seen before was the offensively boorish behavior of Jim Cramer, who should give serious thought to switching to decaf.
I think it's time to put a finish to these endless rounds of equal-opportunity debates and clear away the deadwood-- Bachman, Huntsman, Paul, Santorum, and that fork-stuck slice of Texas Toast, Rick Perry, and focus on those candidates who are either viable or, at the very least, interesting. If things keep on as they were tonight, the GOP risks making Obama appear, by comparison, positively scintillating.
Edited on Nov 10, 2011 at 12:01pmJul '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
We went straight to the Burn Notice DVD at House Sisyphus. False friends, fast talking, and a steady stream of whoppers, but more entertaining and with explosions and family values. I'll find a transcript later.
For tonight, Troy has told me all I need to know.
May '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
So much for Rob Long's "three things" rule. http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/ma/ma110907three_things
May '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Freeven
I thought this was Perry's best debate to date. It's unfortunate that it was marred by such an uncomfortable moment, and that so many are willing to write him off for something that can happen to anyone. That moment aside, he was more focused, more articulate, and more substantive than in prior debates. This outing should have given him something solid to build upon, but instead it may end him. We have an odd sense of proportion that a simple memory slip can do so much damage when other missteps are so readily forgiven. · Nov 9 at 10:22pm
The news story should read: "Perry looks human, Presidential hopes dashed".
May '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
I avoided most of the debate, but decided to turn it on for a short viewing. I managed to turn it on just in time to see Perry pull the chair out from under himself.
Amazingly, I didn't turn it right back off. I lasted until my favorite question of the night: "Governor Romney, are you pandering?"
Aug '10
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
Turns out that Perry's plans to skip the debates were very prescient - he just didn't follow them soon enough.
I hope he bows out soon, it's getting hard to watch that train wreck every debate.
Jan '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
There's a scene in the movie Gladiator where Russell Crowe and his friends enter the Coliseum for the first time. Instead of fighting each other, they're served up to the crowd as fodder for the warriors in chariots. However, instead of simply being slaughtered, Crowe persuades his friends to band together and fight as a unit, warily watching the chariots and preparing for the next attack.
I didn't watch all of the debate last night, but that Coliseum scene came to mind. The candidates weren't there to fight each other, because they were more wary of the gotcha questions they've come to expect from the moderators. And, frankly, I think Newt played the role of Maximus ... "stick together, fellow candidates, and we'll get through this alive."
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
I have no television (which I rarely, if ever, regret) and I could find no stream of this debate on the internet. So I missed the whole thing.
Reading about it confirms me in my conviction that we should take this away from the legacy media and stage the debates on the internet ourselves -- eliminating the clowns, focusing on the contenders, giving them time for thoughtful responses, asking questions from a conservative perspective.
Apr '11
Re: 11/9 CNBC Debate Recap
There were three leading contenders in this field prior to the debate: Romney, Cain and, uh.....uh....nope. Can't. Oops.