Would You Vote For Independence For Your State?

 

Yesterday, Peter asked how we all would vote on independence for Scotland, but I have a question for you: if you could be certain it wouldn’t cause a war, would you vote for independence for your state?

Now, I realize that the question is very different from Peter’s — Scotland having a very long and very different history from England, different people, different language, different culture — but I think it’s still relevant.

In my case, I live in New York State and I would vote an emphatic No.  The nut of the case is that — if governments must exist — they should do so only to protect the rights of their citizens.

Despite meeting not far from my house, I don’t trust the New York State Legislature to protect my rights.  As terrible as Uncle Sam is, I have a better shot of the Constitution of the United States protecting my rights than the State of New York.

I don’t know how to answer Peter’s question. While on general principle, I’d prefer smaller and smaller polities (preferably the smallest possible one, the individual) living in New York and not Scotland, I don’t have enough information. I don’t know which way to vote to have my rights better protected. The living under the control of White Hall sounds terrible, but Holyrood sounds worse, somehow.  But like I said, I don’t have enough information.

So, again, how would you vote for independence for your state? If you live somewhere other than the US, please modify appropriately to province, or canton, or whatever, as per your local situation.

Image Credit: Shutterstock user spirit of america.

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  1. iWc Coolidge
    iWc
    @iWe

    At this point, I want everything devolved. Then states, etc. can form free trade zones between them.

    I would vote yes.

    • #1
  2. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    As the left goes metastatic and the cancer is spreading everywhere, I am considering pulling the eject lever on Virginia.  Me and my wife like it here, but I don’t think I am going to tolerate the workers paradise that gets erected.  Its rapidly becoming a company town for the federal workers in NoVA and Norfolk, and the liberal freaks populating UVA, with the rest of the state is just backwash supporting these apparatuses.

    Yes, I want to vote for independence, but I want to be a refugee first.

    • #2
  3. Songwriter Inactive
    Songwriter
    @user_19450

    I live in Tennessee. Before that – 35 years in Texas. Both would make for solid independent states.

    • #3
  4. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Ahm fr’m Texas.

    I have stated my position before.  Texas tried seceding once about 150 years back and it didn’t work out so good. What Texas should do this time, instead of seceding, is join a movement to liberate the slave Blue States.

    Yeah, the New Republic of Texas could do just fine.  But it would not fix the problem leading to the breakup in the first place – which would eventually spill over into Texas.

    Secession would create a massive illegal alien problem, as takers from the remnants of the United States sneak in pretending to be makers in order to mooch. What’s worse it would make Texans mistrust the makers that move here because they want to be in an environment where you are not condemned for wanting to make a profit as well as a product.

    (It’s not like you can look at someone and tell whether they are a maker or a taker. You cannot even tell the difference by listening to them – like mockingbirds, takers learn to make noises imitating makers.  You have to watch what they do. That takes time.)

    Seawriter

    • #4
  5. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Couldn’t do that to the rest of Australia.

    Not that we aren’t tempted…

    • #5
  6. Salamandyr Inactive
    Salamandyr
    @Salamandyr

    Missouri is weird.  We trend more independent than the country as a whole (while getting less credit for it than states like Texas)–for instance, Missouri has some of the loosest alcohol laws in the country.  It also has a fiercely social conservative streak, and tends to fall in love with Democrats who can sound like Baptists.  Thanks to certain constitutional safeguards, it’s also really hard for a Democrat to screw anything up too quickly.  They do a good job of screwing things up around the edges, though.

    So Missouri would probably be okay on its own, though I’ve got to think without the federal government to offload things to, it would wind up less free than it is today.

    As for Scotland, I get the impression they are the whiny teenagers of Europe, who don’t realize the expenditures their parents (the UK) make for them.  I want them to move out (declare independence) in large part to give them the dose of reality they need (punish them).

    Sometimes the greatest punishment is giving someone exactly what they want.

    • #6
  7. user_280840 Inactive
    user_280840
    @FredCole

    Zafar:Couldn’t do that to the rest of Australia.

    Not that we aren’t tempted…

    I thought of you when I made this post and put that little thing at the end.  My thought process was thing “I think Zafar is like in Australia or something.  Are those states or provinces?  I think they’re states.”

    • #7
  8. user_404027 Inactive
    user_404027
    @BlakeAnderton

    Oklahoma would likely not do well on it’s own (land locked state and all that), so I’d vote No. Now if the option of being annexed into the Republic of Texas were on the ballot…

    • #8
  9. user_142044 Thatcher
    user_142044
    @AmericanAbroad

    My native state is Illinois.  I think the prudent course of action is to vote “Yes” for independence and then move to Indiana.

    • #9
  10. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    No. I am American first, Georgian Second.

    • #10
  11. user_1029039 Inactive
    user_1029039
    @JasonRudert

    No. Utah would be doomed without federal money. And I have much the same attitude about our state legislature as does Fred Cole.

    • #11
  12. user_280840 Inactive
    user_280840
    @FredCole

    Jason Rudert:No. Utah would be doomed without federal money.And I have much the same attitude about our state legislature as does Fred Cole.

    Yeah.  I like devolving power.  But some people take it too far.  I don’t want local yokels to have the power to start banning books.  Not only does the Constitution protect my liberties from interference, but those protections are really hard to change.  So much so that they’re pretty close to being set in stone.  I don’t want to protections subject to the whims of the NYS Legislature.

    • #12
  13. user_352043 Coolidge
    user_352043
    @AmySchley

    Blake Anderton:Oklahoma would likely not do well on it’s own (land locked state and all that), so I’d vote No. Now if the option of being annexed into the Republic of Texas were on the ballot…

    I’d be happy to see Kansas join the New United States of Texas and Oklahoma.

    And I guess we could let in Missouri too.  Or else the border wars might start up all over again …

    • #13
  14. Salamandyr Inactive
    Salamandyr
    @Salamandyr

    Local control has much to be said for it, but it’s not perfect.  I live in a very nice community that one time recently seriously tried to ban profanity.

    I’m sure the people who supported the measure were nice, polite people with very tasteful jackboots.

    • #14
  15. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Amy Schley: I’d be happy to see Kansas join the New United States of Texas and Oklahoma. And I guess we could let in Missouri too.  Or else the border wars might start up all over again …

    My younger brother keeps saying Texas should secede and invite the like-minded states to join it in a Reunited States, with a stronger 9th and 10th Amendments.

    Again, my reservation is the mooches coming across the border from Blue State America when their welfare state collapses as a result of the maker states leaving the taker states to their socialist paradise.  The solution is to fix the underlying problem.

    Seawriter

    • #15
  16. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    Oklahoma would likely not do well on it’s own (land locked state and all that), so I’d vote No. Now if the option of being annexed into the Republic of Texas were on the ballot…

    Actually, as Dictator of the Republic of TEXAS, I’d declare war on oklahoma, enjoy breakfast, then celebrate Our victory.

    • #16
  17. user_404027 Inactive
    user_404027
    @BlakeAnderton

    Jimmy Carter: Actually, as Dictator of the Republic of TEXAS, I’d declare war on oklahoma, enjoy breakfast, then celebrate Our victory.

    I, for one, welcome our new Texan overlords.

    • #17
  18. hawk@haakondahl.com Member
    hawk@haakondahl.com
    @BallDiamondBall

    Fred Cole: In my case, I live in New York and I would vote an emphatic No.  The nut of the case is that, if governments must exist, they should do so only to protect the rights of their citizens.   I don’t trust the New York State Legislature (a body that meets not many miles from my home) to protect my rights.  As terrible as Uncle Sam is, I have a better shot of the Constitution of the United States protecting my rights than the State of New York.

    Well reasoned.  Amen.

    • #18
  19. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I wouldn’t gain much in Massachusetts–the feds and Massachusetts think alike, unfortunately.  In fact, it used to be a joke to me to look at the Boston Globe headlines in the morning and guess whether they were referring to the state or the fed.  :)

    I would, however, get to keep more of the tax dollars.  In fact, I live on Cape Cod, which is known as sending more money to Boston than it sends back to us in terms of services and cash.  (There is always grumbling about independence here.)

    Each dollar sent up the chain from me to the federal government loses a dime at each middle manager along the way.  If the route were shorter–that is, if it stayed on Cape Cod–more of each dollar could actually be spent productively.  The state and fed are just accountants, really, and they charge a high price for managing our money.

    I would like to see the fed take on just defense and diplomacy and leave everything else to the states.

    • #19
  20. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Actually, I’d vote to keep most of the 50 as members of the United States of America; as a Hamiltonian, I believe in the advantages of economic power and influence.

    I would vote to eliminate a few of the non-productive ones: IL (the stock exchange can move to NYC) and MI (the car industry has already moved down south) come to mind as some pertinent examples. Chicago and Detroit have become enormous financial drains upon their own states.

    I’d keep CA and NY because despite themselves they still produce a GDP larger than many countries so we must figure out a way to fix them and keep them.

    HI and AK are up for evaluation as well.

    • #20
  21. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    “Texas shall be free and independent, or we shall perish in glorious combat.” – Juan Seguin, 1837

    Consider that an emphatic YES.

    • #21
  22. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    I am Texan first, and American a very, very distant second.

    • #22
  23. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Mike LaRoche:I am Texan first, and American a very, very distant second.

    Don’t be selfish, now. What would the rest of the fiscally responsible citizens of this country do without the Big T? We can’t all move there!

    • #23
  24. Badderbrau Moderator
    Badderbrau
    @EKentGolding

    Michigan  is filled with Left Wing Nut Jobs.   I would vote for Michigan Independence only if I knew Texas or some other Red State would accept my family and I.

    • #24
  25. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Badderbrau:Michigan is filled with Left Wing Nut Jobs. I would vote for Michigan Independence only if I knew Texas or some other Red State would accept my family and I.

    I was born and raised in Ann Arbor. Married another Ann Arbor native.  Graduated from the University of Michigan.  Moved to Texas two months after graduation and have been there ever since.  Some native-born Texans claim I am not a Texan, but I have now lived here longer than Buck Travis, Jim Bowie, and Davy Crockett put together, and in a year or two you can throw Stephen F. Austin into the mix.  For that matter, I’ve lived here longer than Sam Houston. (Of course, I got here younger than he did.)

    Anyhow, c’mon down. Don’t wait. Texas welcomes hard workers.

    Seawriter

    • #25
  26. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    EThompson:

    Mike LaRoche:I am Texan first, and American a very, very distant second.

    Don’t be selfish, now. What would the rest of the fiscally responsible citizens of this country do without the Big T? We can’t all move there!

    Florida and Texas could take the lead in forming a new, fiscally conservative Gulf Coast Republic!

    • #26
  27. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Seawriter:

    Badderbrau:Michigan is filled with Left Wing Nut Jobs. I would vote for Michigan Independence only if I knew Texas or some other Red State would accept my family and I.

    I was born and raised in Ann Arbor. Married another Ann Arbor native. Graduated from the University of Michigan. Moved to Texas two months after graduation and have been there ever since. Some native-born Texans claim I am not a Texan, but I have now lived here longer than Buck Travis, Jim Bowie, and Davy Crockett put together, and in a year or two you can throw Stephen F. Austin into the mix. For that matter, I’ve lived here longer than Sam Houston. (Of course, I got here younger than he did.)

    Anyhow, c’mon down. Don’t wait. Texas welcomes hard workers.

    Seawriter

    As a Bloomfield Hills native, I can’t argue with either of you. I am happily ensconced in Florida and miss nothing about MI save Joe Louis and Comerica.

    • #27
  28. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    EThompson:

    Seawriter:

    Badderbrau:Michigan is filled with Left Wing Nut Jobs. I would vote for Michigan Independence only if I knew Texas or some other Red State would accept my family and I.

    I was born and raised in Ann Arbor. Married another Ann Arbor native. Graduated from the University of Michigan. Moved to Texas two months after graduation and have been there ever since. Some native-born Texans claim I am not a Texan, but I have now lived here longer than Buck Travis, Jim Bowie, and Davy Crockett put together, and in a year or two you can throw Stephen F. Austin into the mix. For that matter, I’ve lived here longer than Sam Houston. (Of course, I got here younger than he did.)

    Anyhow, c’mon down. Don’t wait. Texas welcomes hard workers.

    Seawriter

    As a Bloomfield Hills native, I can’t argue with either of you. I am happily ensconced in Florida and miss nothing about MI save Joe Louis and Comerica.

    What about Ford Field?

    • #28
  29. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Mike LaRoche:

    EThompson:

    Seawriter:

    Badderbrau:Michigan is filled with Left Wing Nut Jobs. I would vote for Michigan Independence only if I knew Texas or some other Red State would accept my family and I.

    I was born and raised in Ann Arbor. Married another Ann Arbor native. Graduated from the University of Michigan. Moved to Texas two months after graduation and have been there ever since. Some native-born Texans claim I am not a Texan, but I have now lived here longer than Buck Travis, Jim Bowie, and Davy Crockett put together, and in a year or two you can throw Stephen F. Austin into the mix. For that matter, I’ve lived here longer than Sam Houston. (Of course, I got here younger than he did.)

    Anyhow, c’mon down. Don’t wait. Texas welcomes hard workers.

    Seawriter

    As a Bloomfield Hills native, I can’t argue with either of you. I am happily ensconced in Florida and miss nothing about MI save Joe Louis and Comerica.

    What about Ford Field?

    Very funny.

    • #29
  30. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    I found this post interesting in that I think the concept of secession isn’t the issue at all; I think we should find a way to force non-productive states out of the union. After all, there are more fiscally solvent states than not.

    This is why I’ve taken a particular interest in Scotland; England should jump at the chance to rid herself of Michigan and Illinois.

    • #30
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