Ben Domenech

katievs

Aaron Miller: Personhood is not an objective trait. It is relational. Personhood is "who" a person is.

Whoa.  As Ricochet's own, self-appointed, in-house Personalist, I protest.  

Personhood is an ontological category of objective being. It is not reducible to relations. · 5 minutes ago

Personhood distracts from the nature of this in my view. What is a human life? Someone who is 1. human and 2. alive. The rest is mere meandering.

Claire Berlinski, Ed.
outstripp: Claire what are the chances any of the reporters reporting on Russia actually speak Russian? · 7 hours ago

Quite good, I think. 

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

Oh, come on. The Turks aren't that stupid. 

On the northern front, the Turkish army would push south to take Aleppo and severe Damascus's links to the Syrian Mediterranean region (which contains a large Alawite population).

Sure! They're just going to send in their kids in to take casualties like that. There wouldn't be any problem if Assad popped one of those Scuds or  SS-21s--or perhaps a few hundred--into a Turkish population center, after all, and probably all that talk about chemical weapons is just gossip, right? Nothing like the clash and sting of a ground war against a desperate, ruthless enemy armed by Russia and an even more desperate Iran--not if you're a fearless Turk! 

The stereotype of the Turk as all brawn, no brain, is not quite true, James. They want to send their kids into that about as much as Americans do. 

And don't forget that a significant portion of Turkey's military leadership is in jail. 

Ben Domenech

Those close to Rubio say he'd prefer to be Jesse Helms, not an early Veep pick. We'll see.

So, Claire. The National is now running analysts' commentaries floating a joint Turkish-Jordanian-Gulf intervention in Syria, meaning a Turkish intervention. None less than Anne-Marie Slaughter says this is "a realistic scenario." Obviously this is about the last possible thing the Russians would want. (Well, second last.) But Turkey is, in spite of it all, in a position of relative strength and freedom of operation.

And so: how likely do you judge such an eventuality to be? If at all likely, how soon?

Ben Domenech
Robert Promm: He needs some manners though.  Who is "she" who introduced him?  Etiquette requires that if the person is in the room you use the name and not the pronoun. · 39 minutes ago

Indeed, it was Kelly Ayotte. What are you, etiquette cop?

Watch this. Now.

Marco Rubio always seems to follow Peter's four word advice about speech-giving: "Crack jokes. Tell stories." It's a rarity in the Senate, where so many are in love with the sounds of their own voices. But the principles that undergird these words are the key element, the aspect so often sorely lacking in political speeches today.

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

Tough audience for the SAR.

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

Rice was outstanding. And obviously genuinely furious. 

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

The word is that China and Russia will veto.

Watch it here

Tommy De Seno

Pseudodionysius: But sin is a matter of intention.    

Unfortunately, no. I think this is the nub of the problem you're having with Catholic moral theology as applied to this particular issue if I'm understanding your statement correctly. There's a public domain explanation here, though it doesn't specifically apply to NFP. I'll try to dig up one of those later. · 7 minutes ago

We are going to split some hairs now.

Robbing you would be sinful no matter what my intention.

Cutting you with a knife can be good or bad depending entirely on my intention (to hurt you or to cut out your cancer).

Having sex for right and wrong reasons is a matter of intention.  If sex was essentially bad or essentially good it would be so at all times, no matter how hard Grendel protests.

Edited 8 hours ago
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
flownover: HVT, please understand here that Claire is the object of my affectation.

Let's all step back to admire a clever line or a really lucky typo. 

Tommy De Seno

Grendel

Tommy De Seno

Driving is about crashing when I want to crash and about driving to a destination when I want to do that. 

 A second problem is thinking colloquial language expresses the same things as the more technical terms I and others have been using, as sparingly as possible. (I apologize for contributing to the confusion.)

Well I'm in a business where choosing the simplest and least amount of words to make a point is encouraged.

I personally wouldn't feel superior were I to opt instead for more technical terms over the colloquial.   

Whether I call a guy an "equus africanus asinus" or a donkey, either way he's still an ass.

Tommy De Seno

Joseph Stanko

Tommy De Seno

That desire is innate while pregnancy is a matter of intention.

There is sex that is not ordered toward and completely unattached from procreation.  

From the Times:

She and her boyfriend were using condoms when she became pregnant. Though Catholic, she considered abortion, but chose to have the baby. She said she knew six other Fordham students who had become pregnant and had abortions.

Clearly these 7 students had no intention to become pregnant.  And though I fear I'm still misunderstanding you, it sounds to me like you're saying that since they did not intend to become pregnant they were engaging in acts that were "not ordered toward and completely unattached from procreation."

And that leaves me scratching my head wondering how in the world an act completely unattached from procreation could result in pregnancy.  That can't be your meaning, so what am I missing here? · 15 hours ago

But sin is a matter of intention.    

Sex with a condom that fails and results in pregnancy = sinful.

Sex with NFP that fails and results in pregnancy = not sinful.

I don't buy it.

Tommy De Seno

Grendel essentialism requires members of a group to have the same properties.  What then of naturally infertile people?  Will you be throwing them over the wall as you have suggeseted for others?

Where you and I disagree is over the importance of intention. 

It is the intention of the Church that we do get to enjoy sex that is not oriented toward conception.  You just refuse to address that those encounters even exist and that the Church is A-OK with them.

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

HVTs

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

I don't want to see this thread descend into a faux-debate about whether I called you racist or genocidal. I didn't. I suggested that this word doesn't have a great track record.  

I sincerely doubt this debate would appear faux if you we the one being accused of a hideous character flaw.  Bluntly put, there’s a matter of honor on the table.  It’s not encouraging that your pull quote quite ignored my substantive objection and instead repeated a point made simply to establish the gravity of the offense you imparted.  Thus, I’ve readily conceded that I might have found a mode of expression less subject to misinterpretation . . . less vitriolic, in other words.  Is it too much to ask you to say plainly, “I misconstrued the point you were making and unfairly ascribed a horrible motivation to you”?  If you’ll extend your hand across the distance mine has already traveled, we might both return to happier pursuits. · 6 minutes ago

Sure, of course I'll say that. I'll give you a hug across the distance, too. Okay? 

Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Pilli: Claire, you are obviously laboring under a huge misconception.  You obviously believe that Reporters ought to well, report.  Not just report though, but report what is actually going on on BOTH sides of a story.  

No, I don't believe they ought to do it, because I don't believe it's humanly possible--especially because there's no "both" sides, usually, but about a million sides. Any given reporter can only be in one place at one time--and news events happen quickly, which is why they're called "news."

But I do think better editors would have looked at some of the copy coming in today and asked themselves, "Shouldn't the pro-Putin rally part be higher up in this, even if people were forced to go?"

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

MMPadre

Claire:  Ilhan says, "You hear, over and over, 'the US doesn't care about us.' Now is a good time to change this perspective."  But he doesn't say how this perspective could be changed.  How, then? · 2 hours ago

I don't know. I didn't record (and in any event couldn't have uploaded) the hours of conversation we had the night before, in which I basically said to everything he said, "Yes, but how does this [Plan A, Plan B, Plan C] make anything better" -- and not just for the people now being killed in Homs, but for everyone who stands to be affected by the wider regional fallout.

Claire Berlinski, Ed.

HVTs

flownover: The big lie depended on the use of repetitive slurs, as Goebbels .  . .

Lovely.  Now I’m being irrationally lumped together with others and incoherently compared to Joseph Goebbels.  If only I was a doctor we could throw Mengele into the mix!  All this from a flagrantly inaccurate rendering of my actual words, which remain precisely where they were for all to see.  Why let facts get in the way of a great narrative?  Kafka and MSNBC rule!

On the plus side, this has turned from insulting to just plain humorous.  Please, by all means … let the demonization continue.  As we all know and I must now fully concede, once you bring the Nazis into the argument it’s automatic victory for your side!  Game over.  You Win.  I’m off to Nuremberg for a big rally.  If only I could find my white hooded cloak . . . it’s here somewhere. · 14 minutes ago

At least you've got your sense of humor back. Come on, HVTs. Relax. 

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