Does College Teach Students to Write?
I attended a public panel discussion not too long ago on the subject of curriculum reform sponsored by the Society for the College, an organization for which I happen to serve on the board. A particular point of contention among faculty was whether or not there should be some sort of writing composition requirement, something that both the Society and panelist Michael Poliakoff of the American Council of Trustees and Alumni support.
Poliakoff's criticism was not welcomed by the faculty who were at this meeting. The faculty, as well as Teresa Longo, our Dean of Educational Policy, insisted that writing was taught by "embedding" it in the instruction of other courses. Instead of completing a Writing 101 type class as students used to some decades ago, today's students complete a Lower Division Writing Requirement- typically in the form of a freshman seminar- and an Upper Division Writing Requirement in the form of a senior colloquium. Students are apparently supposed to absorb this writing ability throughout their coursework without taking a specific writing class.
There is, of course, a tiny snag with this whole setup. It doesn't work. I have had maybe one professor actually take serious instruction time to teach us about quality writing, and his advice boiled down to "read Strunk & White." Sure, the quality of my writing has improved over the last three years, but only because I have figured out what works and what doesn't. If professors are teaching us how to write, they are so brilliantly subtle that no one has noticed. To be honest, I don't want history professors to teach me how to write; I would much rather that they teach history.
No matter how tedious it may be, a lot of students would probably benefit from some kind of composition requirement. If we assume that writing skill is important, it is far better for it to be taught on its own than for professors to awkwardly cram it in next to their research interests. Both my freshman seminar and my upper level seminar were quite writing intensive, and were taught by good professors, but apart from consulting on the content of our papers, we were never given advice on good writing. I suspect a large part of the problem is getting people to spend two and half hours per week teaching composition.
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Dec '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
I had the misfortune of attending a high school that was experimenting with the “Open Classroom”. This was in the early to mid-seventies. It was ill-considered as were many new ideas at that time. Disastrous SAT score put an end to this, but not soon enough for me. ENG 102 helped me immensely.
Sep '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Eric Ames
If Young is correct that comp is just another form of leftist indoctrination, then this is bad news. The problem remains, however, that we have undergraduates at good universities with inadequate knowledge of punctuation and sentence structure. Yes, this should be remedied long before matriculation, but as it happens, it isn't. A thoughtful, well-done remedial writing course should be seriously considered. · Oct 31 at 10:25am
Eric -- you need quick help, and I'll recommend 2 (and no, I have no financial interest in them):
A brilliant daily grammar program that has you take apart a single sentence once a day for 5 days and then do a different sentence for 30 weeks (6 months). A lot of the great books schools have writing curricula built into their programs. Scott F Crider's The Office of Assertion is very good, Claire Kerhrwald Cook's Line by Line is used by a lot of professionals in the work force trying to repair their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated.
Jun '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
I also was a victim of the "open classroom" experiment. Thankfully, I had enough excellent teachers to get me through it. It wasn't long, however, that walls were put up and the classes were closed once again.
Dec '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated
Sep '11
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
The reason colleges don't teach principles of expository writing any more is that the professors don't know how to write. To write a proper essay, one has to engage in organized thinking. Organized thinking is the nemesis of liberals. They want to teach emotive writing. They want to teach youth to gush their feelings all over the page, not how to provide a reasoned description or argument about something.
Sep '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Foxman
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated · Oct 31 at 10:46am
I'm in the middle of a webinar while typing this (yes, I'm trying to multi task), so feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
Jun '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Misthiocracy
I think if universities turned down any applicant that cannot write properly, k-12 schools might start teaching kids how to write. Incentives matter. If universities don't demand that all freshmen already know how to write, then why should k-12 schools bother teaching kids how to write.
If writing isn't a requirement for colleges, then it won't be a part of the college prep curriculum. · Oct 31 at 9:42am
My main point is that students need writing instruction at both levels. One should not replace the other. Turning down a college applicant for poor writing skills is fine by me. College should be dedicated to pushing students to the next level, not filling in gaps left from K-12. Separate writing courses should be provided in college apart from the usual topical subjects so that the necessary focus can be applied to it.
Aug '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Pseudodionysius
Foxman
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated · Oct 31 at 10:46am
I'm in the middle of a webinar while typing this (yes, I'm trying to multi task), so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. · Oct 31 at 10:55am
Plus, keep in mind that Pseudo doesn't have opposable thumbs.
Sep '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Misthiocracy
Pseudodionysius
Foxman
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated · Oct 31 at 10:46am
I'm in the middle of a webinar while typing this (yes, I'm trying to multi task), so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. · Oct 31 at 10:55am
Plus, keep in mind that Pseudo doesn't have opposable thumbs. · Oct 31 at 11:33am
I'm a victim.
Feb '11
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
For the amount of money that a college education costs today, it is not unreasonable that universities should offer targeted writing classes with frequent practice labs (without commenting on the mechanics of doing so) as this is a means of converting a socially desirable product into a practically valuable one. On the other hand, perhaps this glaring market failure on the part of public high schools could give rise to entrepreneur-English majors to offer small group tutoring/training off campus to their peers, or for non-profits like churches or clubs to offer classes as ministry or outreach.
Oct '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Misthiocracy
Pseudodionysius
Foxman
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated · Oct 31 at 10:46am
I'm in the middle of a webinar while typing this (yes, I'm trying to multi task), so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. · Oct 31 at 10:55am
Plus, keep in mind that Pseudo doesn't have opposable thumbs. · Oct 31 at 11:33am
You were just using "working" as a gerund--right Pseud? Pseud?
May '11
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
I think everybody is missing a huge culprit on why students can't write well. Multiple choice tests. I went to school during the 80's and it seemed like everything was multiple choice tests. Even my English classes had multiple choice tests. Take out your #2 pencil and fill in the space thoroughly so the machine can read it. I also learned that if you didn't know the answer (which was all to often) "C" was the best guess. I think we have a whole generation that wasn't forced to write or think critically because of lazy teachers who didn't want to be bothered by having to read essays. I don't have kids so I don't know if multiple choice tests are still common today, but I think they should be outlawed.
Oct '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
This is basically what my company does. It's kind of like opening a glass factory after a war.
Oct '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Basically, yes, colleges should have an introductory writing class, for all the reasons mentioned in the OP. You can't "embed" instruction about sentence variety in a class about the French Revolution--at the very least, you can't take the time to go around enforcing the requirement.
The intro writing class should include
*basic grammatical instruction (which able students could pass out of via a placement test).
*paragraphing, from topic sentence to sentence variety
*regular practice writing summaries of argumentative essays (just a foundational exercise for rhetoric)
*instruction and practice in identifying logical fallacies
*developing your own point of view (note that this comes last)
An hour on various forms of modern correspondence (types of emails, cover letters) would help, too.
Aug '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Ha! Methinks there are plenty of professors who fear students who are able to identify logical fallacies!
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Andrew Johnson: In my opinion, college students should have a pretty solid grasp how to write by the time they enroll, not learning how to do so when they get there. Unfortunately though, that's not necessarily the reality.
My high school spent a lot of time focusing on writing, and while I almost thought it was too much at the time, I'm grateful for it now. When I read a lot of my classmates' works, I'm often times taken aback by some basic composition skills that their works lack....
Like Andrew, I was fortunate enough to attend a high school with excellent writing instruction, and even at the wonderful school I attend now, I have found that many of my classmates do not know how to write. Ideally, all students should be able to write fluently upon matriculation to college, but I definitely think collegiate expository writing courses are necessary now that the nation's public education system has failed so thoroughly. We need meaningful reform of public education in order to restore K-12 writing instruction to what it should be. For my generation, though, college writing courses will have to suffice.
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
My broader point is that higher education should have a role in this. The stale five paragraph form high school students are taught doesn't work for anything beyond the essay questions written by ETS. Students don't need to just learn what they should have learned in high school, they should learn techniques that will allow their writing to mature.
Dec '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
Pseudodionysius
Foxman
Pseudodionysius
Eric Ames
· Oct 31 at 10:25am
their prose after their working when they realize they've been cheated. · Oct 31 at 10:38am
their prose after they're working when they realize they've been cheated · Oct 31 at 10:46am
I'm in the middle of a webinar while typing this (yes, I'm trying to multi task), so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. · Oct 31 at 10:55am
I'm sorry. I could not help myself in a thread on proper writing.
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
I don't remember taking a huge number of multiple choice tests until junior high and high school. Some instructors don't even write their own tests. They end up using questions written by outside providers. They are also under a lot of pressure for students to perform on state-mandated tests, as well as on AP exams. If my experience is any indication, multiple choice at the college level is the exception rather than the rule. I have had a couple of large intro classes that have used them, but none of my history classes, and very few government classes, have used them.
Jul '10
Re: Does College Teach Students to Write?
My apologies for not knowing the source, but years ago I heard of an interesting study concerning writing abilities of high school students. A group of about 20 sophomores was divided into two groups: those few who had a natural talent for writing, and the rest who were poor to marginally good writers.
The instructor allowed the talented writers to write whenever they had the urge, but they did have to hand in something once a week. She made the others write every day, giving them feedback and useful instruction. At the end of the semester, those in the second group were by far the better writers; even the once-poor writers outstripped the naturally-talented ones.
The message couldn’t be clearer. As Florence King said, the art of writing primarily consists of planting your rear in the seat of a chair.