The End

In Mollie’s thread, I half-jokingly cited St Malachy’s prophecy of the popes, which seemingly identifies Pope Benedict XVI’s successor as the last. (Please bear in mind that the Church does not make claims about the validity of ongoing prophecies, visions or apparitions unless they conflict with the faith.)

Peter the Roman, who …

  1. raycon and lindacon

    For all of history God has called each one of us as though we were living in the end of times.  To live our lives with that understanding is to rejoice in the end, if we are so privileged to see it. 

    At the same time, we also know that this will be the last moment the doubters and faithless will have to join in the rejoicing, before sorrow is their lot.

    Aaron, we pray that you are right, and that our time is now coming.  But, as the Brit’s would say, if not, we will soldier on, and perhaps die of old age having been given a lifetime of anticipation.

  2. Aaron Miller

    Well said, Ray. I don’t believe its the End itself (Judgment) that is daunting, but rather the preceding tribulations in which the faithful will surely share. WWII was a tribulation. I doubt it will remain the worst. We have great challenges before us.

  3. Nanda Panjandrum

    Aaron, 

    Recall Mt. 16:18 & Mt. 24:36…Merely a suggestion.

  4. Foxfier

    Don’t see the difference between history for the last…roughly…two thousand years and being able to see the end times.

    It’s always ending, from a human lifetime perspective; no behavior change because the situation is the same.

    *******

    Now, if I thought it was possible to really know “we’ve got three years left,” or whatever, that would be kinda freaky.  There’s a reason it’s a popular story theme, after all.  The emotional power is not to be sniffed at.

  5. Aaron Miller
    Nanda Panjandrum: Aaron, 

    Recall Mt. 16:18 & Mt. 24:36…Merely a suggestion.

    I knew that was coming! :)

    To say “the Father alone” knows when is not to say that the Father leaves the question entirely open. In the Bible, fulfillment of prophecies and promises is often preceded by signs.

    “The End” hit home for me while reading about the apparitions of Mary in Medjugorje. The Church formally recognizes past apparitions of Mary in Fatima and Lourdes, among others, but leaves faith in the current apparitions in Medjugorje to prudential judgment because they are ongoing. The Holy Mother has been appearing throughout the world ever since her death in the first century AD. But in Medjugorje she has been appearing for a much, much longer duration than usual… and she has supposedly said this is her final visitation. If so, that’s rather ominous, don’t you think? She has spoken of great tribulations, as she did before previous World Wars.

    Like I said, faith in such things is left to the prudential judgment of individual Catholics. I learned about Medjugorje just as Mary began playing a greater role in my life. I believe.

  6. Rightfromthestart

    Newsmax had this up earlier today, the first name they listed as a possibility was :

     ‘ Peter Turkson (Ghana, age 64) is the one of the top African candidates. Head of the Vatican justice and peace bureau, he is spokesman for the Church’s social conscience and backs world financial reform. He studied and taught abroad in New York and Rome before being ordained to the priesthood in 1975 and appointed Archbishop of Cape Coast – the former colonial capital of Ghana and a key diocese – in 1992.’

       It’s a little stretch to get ‘Peter the Roman’ out of that but it’s interesting.  And after we just came through the Mayan Prophecies here we go again!

  7. Foxfier
    Rightfromthestart: Newsmax had this up earlier today, the first name they listed as a possibility was :

     ‘ Peter Turkson (Ghana, age 64) is the one of the top African candidates. Head of the Vatican justice and peace bureau, 

    *screeching halt*

    Oh, goodness, Ihope not.  That would be an utter disaster for the American part of the Church, unless he’s freakishly unlike the infamous folks under him.

    Not discounting acts of God, etc, of course–but this is one of those times when such a caveat should be assumed and we just chatter about what is humanly guessable. 

  8. Foxfier
    Aaron Miller

    But in Medjugorje she has been appearing for a much, much longer duration than usual… and she has supposedly said this is her final visitation.

    Part of why I do not choose to put much stock those apparitions; too much of what she has “supposedly” said is designed to say “these are the end times.”

  9. Aaron Miller
    Foxfier

    Aaron Miller

    But in Medjugorje ….

    Part of why I do not choose to put much stock those apparitions; too much of what she has “supposedly” said is designed to say “these are the end times.”

    Most of what she has supposedly said is a simple reminder to fast and pray.

    Honestly, Medjugorje hasn’t even crossed my mind in years. People don’t generally need miracles and visions to know enough of God’s love to believe and act. But everyone needs inspiration… and not only on rare occasions. Think of Medjugorje like the personal angel and miracle stories every Christian hears from fellow Christians from time to time.

    Love… bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. ….

    For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

    Until then!

    Empiricism is fine for scientific research, but a terrible way to approach life in general. Like innocent children, we should want to believe in the wondrous and extraordinary, even if we cannot always do so.

  10. Foxfier
    Aaron Miller

    Empiricism is fine for scientific research, but a terrible way to approach life in general.

    What has empiricism got to do with declining to believe in an ongoing possible private revelation, especially in the rumored specifics which would run counter to public revelation?  I’m exercising prudence; if you find it inspiring, fine, so long as it doesn’t involve violating binding teachings.  That is why I said that I choose not to put much stock in those apparitions. 

    I didn’t even go into any of the deep water that could be involved, and you wouldn’t believe how hard it was to write that phrase without it being in the “isn’t it a good thing I didn’t say anything about X!”  trope.

  11. EJHill

    To quote the great theologian Will Rogers, “I only know what I read in the news papals…”

  12. Aaron Miller

    Sorry. The empiricism comment was only indirectly related to your own caution or disbelief. I was trying (poorly) to broaden the discussion.

    Let me start again. What does it mean when God says love “believes all things”?

    Since this phrase is immediately followed by “hopes all things”, there is clearly a distinction between belief and hope. Yet God certainly does not want us to be gullible, since love is also truth.

    Might it mean that we should be eager to trust other people? Or that we should trust our own senses and experiences, rather than dismiss them with doubts?

  13. Here I Stand!

    “…suppose that the USA will go the way of the Roman Empire within the next generation. Does that only fill you with sadness and dread?”

    It is sad that so many people are looking to themselves for strength and solace. There is no dread of the end for that end is for the world as we know it and will not impact on the life everlasting.

    “Or can you additionally look forward to the final fight for freedom?”

    The final fight for freedom has been engages since the crucifixion. This is where we live.

    “Is there some honor, granted by God or by mere happenstance, in being among the last Americans, steadfast and proud?”

    In my worldview, no honor in heaven is found in being American. There is great honor among men to be American. Last, first, always. It still merits nothing.

    We have been in the last days since the ascension.  Prophesies do not improve understanding of what is to come.   We do not proclaim prophesy, we proclaim the Good News. And therein is our joy in the midst of mortal despair.

    Here I Stand… I could have told you that.

  14. Foxfier
    Aaron Miller: 

    Let me start again. What does it mean when God says love “believes all things”?

    Looking at the context of 1 Cor 13, he’s listing the spiritual gifts of the Path/Way of Love.

    In 14, he explains what to do with them; 14:39 and 40 might warrant special attention.

  15. Brian Clendinen

    There are upsides to end times no pain, suffering, sin, evil it just will be nasty in the events leading up to that.

    However on prophesy of end times, I find it a complete waste of time and a ridicules exercise for any Christian to try to figure out.

    I have always wondered especially in the Psalms how much the Jews really knew and understood the prophesies about Jesus. I mean in the Gospels the authors point them out but with-out hind sight I would have no idea how many of those prophecies would actually play out, or that they were even talking about the Messiah. There were only a few prophecies that they understood because they were very specific like the “City of David” so they knew the location.  

     It is the same with the destruction of Israeli and Judah. If you read them with-out hindsight in many cases you could not figure out what and when it was going to happen.

    Therefor I don’t see how anyone really knows based on pass history of how bibical prophecies were fullfilled, what will play out let alone when untill it happens.

  16. Aaron Miller

    Speaking of ignorance, even if we knew when The End would occur, we wouldn’t know how long it would take to occur. It could take centuries to play out. It needn’t occur within a single generation’s time.

    Same with the end of a government or nation. We assign dates for easy reference, but collapse doesn’t always happen quickly or evenly.

  17. Percival

    You read where Joe DiMaggio ordered that fresh red roses be placed on Marilyn Monroe’s grave every three days, forever.  Not for Joe DiMaggio’s lifetime, mind you, or the duration of Hollywood, its films and its cemeteries, but forever.  And you think, “If there is an end of time, Joe DiMaggio will have some money coming back.”

    – Tom Robbins, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues

  18. Miffed White Male

    At the risk of being perceived to be somewhat flippant on the topic:

    I almost never fail to finish a book I’ve started, even if I find it disappointing.  Likewise with Movies and TV series.  My attitude towards death is that I’m against it because I want to find out how things turn out.

    About 10 years or so ago some astronomers calculated that a specific asteroid was a good  [maybe 10%?] possibility to hit the earth sometime around  2032 (if memory serves). In 2032 I’ll be 70 years old.  My thought at the time was, “Yeah, that’s about right.  Cool – I’ll get to see how things wrap up”. 

     A few days later they redid their calculations and decided the chances were well below 1%.  I was mildly disappointed.

    Of course, that was before I had kids…

     

  19. Jim  Ixtian

    Aaron, you need to look at this not just in the context of the prophecy of St. Malachy and Bible prophecies, but vis-a-vis Islamic eschatology as well. This is where things get very interesting and Mahdhism comes into play with alot of other different games. I highly recommend Timothy Furnish’s ‘Holiest Wars’ to get a basic grasp of Mahdism. Also, Islam: The Cloak of the Anti-Christ’ by Jack Smith with a forward by Furnish is a must as well.

    Remember, it’s not just about what you as a Christian believe, but what Muslims(& Jews) believe as well.

    Rightfromthestart:    It’s a little stretch to get ‘Peter the Roman’ out of that but it’s interesting.  And after we just came through the Mayan Prophecies here we go again!

    What if it’s Cardinal Tarcisio Pietro Evasio Bertone(born in Romano, Italy)? What if the Pope names himself Peter?

  20. Aaron Miller

    If the prophecy of St Malachy is true, then y’all may be focusing on the wrong part of “Peter the Roman”. Karol Wojtyla became Pope John Paul II. Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI. The next pope is likely to take a new name based on spiritual goals in a similar manner. Thus, “the Roman” would be the more telling part.

    If you review my original post, you can see how that could mean the next pope will be an American.

    I’m just idly musing, though.

    Again, the purpose of this post is not to anticipate the timing of Armageddon. It is to consider the honor of experiencing the culmination of history and being faced with some of the greatest threats and challenges the world has ever known.

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