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Killing an American

NBC News was leaked a Justice Department memo that discusses the Obama Administration policy regarding the drone killing of United States citizens who have not been convicted — or even indicted of — crimes.

I’m of the mind that fellow American Anwar al Awlaki deserved to die for all of the murder he’s encouraged and facilitated. I have no doubt that a jury of his peers would deliberate for about 30 seconds before reaching the same conclusion. But, being American, I believe that such a trial …

  1. Devereaux

    I’m totally with you on this, Mollie.

    Alwaki could easily have been tried in a military court in absentia, so that there was some legal underpinning to the execution. ALL American citizens have the rights under the constitution. Those that choose to support the enemy against us are, indeed, traitors, but that determination is by court, not by fiat. Else we have a prince/king who can decide what is or isn’t “treason”.

    The other disturbing aspect of this administration is the unwillingness to capture and interrogate enemy combatants. With such a reluctance to gather intelligence it’s no wonder they have stooped to simple execution.

    But liberals rarely want to know much as much as kill the opposition. Which should scare the you-know-what out of all of us.

  2. SpinozaCarWash

    From the official White House Flickr page:

    This official White House photograph is being made available only for publication by news organizations and/or for personal use printing by the subject(s) of the photograph. The photograph may not be manipulated in any way and may not be used in commercial or political materials, advertisements, emails, products, promotions that in any way suggests approval or endorsement of the President, the First Family, or the White House.

    It appears the WH has forgotten about this little thing called the 1st Amendment.  (Surely the only time in recent memory, no?).  You’re one of my favorites, Mollie.  I don’t want to read stories about you being rushed into police custody during the dark of night. (Did that happen recently too? Or was it just my imagination?).

  3. Fred Cole
    Gouverneur Morris:

    You’re one of my favorites, Mollie.  I don’t want to read stories about you being rushed into police custody during the dark of night. (Did that happen recently too? Or was it just my imagination?). 

    The government could claim her posting of that modified caused a riot and the death of an ambassador and then use a drone to drop a bomb on her.

    If you wanted to stir things up, Mollie, you could’ve posted the same thing except with the title Why Are You Okay With This? and then watch limited government conservatives twist themselves into knots defending it.

  4. Pseudodionysius

    Abortion? Check

    Euthanasia/Death Panels? Check

    Drone strikes on American citizens? Check

    Don’t close Guantanamo Bay? Check

    Being sued by 43 Catholic Diocese? Check

    Negotiations with Iranian Nukes and Norks? Check

    Biggest threat to American national security? The second amendment.

    Pull!

  5. Mollie Hemingway
    C
    Devereaux:

    The other disturbing aspect of this administration is the unwillingness to capture and interrogate enemy combatants. With such a reluctance to gather intelligence it’s no wonder they have stooped to simple execution.

    But liberals rarely want to know much as much as kill the opposition. Which should scare the you-know-what out of all of us. · 15 minutes ago

    It blows my mind that they were the ones who wanted to shut down Guantanamo. Or as Josh Trevino tweeted:

    “If only,” say the critics on the left, “there was a …. I don’t know, a camp where we could imprison them instead.”

  6. Mollie Hemingway
    C
    Fred Cole

    If you wanted to stir things up, Mollie, you could’ve posted the same thing except with the title Why Are You Okay With This? and then watch limited government conservatives twist themselves into knots defending it. · 12 minutes ago

    I couldn’t get The Cure song out of my head while writing this.

  7. Valiuth

    What a bunch of whiners!

    Alawaki is not the first American ordered dead by the government without trial or judicial proceedings. We did not bother with any judicial review for the hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers killed by the US army? I also don’t think any one bothered with a trial in absentia for Bonnie and Clyde who were gunned down by police in an ambush no less. 

    You go abroad, and join Al Queda you risk getting blown up. Seems fair to me. 

  8. Mollie Hemingway
    C
    Valiuth: What a bunch of whiners!

    Alawaki is not the first American ordered dead by the government without trial or judicial proceedings. We did not bother with any judicial review for the hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers killed by the US army? I also don’t think any one bothered with a trial in absentia for Bonnie and Clyde who were gunned down by police in an ambush no less. 

    You go abroad, and join Al Queda you risk getting blown up. Seems fair to me.  · 2 minutes ago

    Good point. If we can’t trust the federal government, whom can we trust, really? And it’s not like there’s ever been evidence of government programs expanding in size and scope after they’re entrenched for a while.

  9. Tom Meyer
    C

    Well said, Mollie.

    I can’t claim this as an original thought, but our modern terrorism laws are functionally identical to the old British treason laws that the Founders so rightly abhorred;  the government need only accuse you in order to get everything they want, and to get it immediately.

    They’re incompatible with republican government.

  10. Tom Meyer
    C
    Valiuth:

    We did not bother with any judicial review for the hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers killed by the US army? I also don’t think any one bothered with a trial in absentia for Bonnie and Clyde who were gunned down by police in an ambush no less.

    I don’t think a national insurrection with millions of combatants in uniform is comparable to the GWOT.  Also, Congress did at least eventually get around to properly suspending Habeas Corpus, which was entirely appropriate.

  11. Fred Cole
    Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

    Fred Cole

    If you wanted to stir things up, Mollie, you could’ve posted the same thing except with the title Why Are You Okay With This? and then watch limited government conservatives twist themselves into knots defending it. · 12 minutes ago

    I couldn’t get The Cure song out of my head while writing this. · 21 minutes ago

    That’s amusing.  I had not heard that song before.  Appreciate, Mollie, the lengths I went through for you.  There’s no speakers on this computer, so I had to Ricochet on my iPod to be able to listen to that.

  12. swatter

    The reelected Ecuadorian president was a shoo-in for reelection. But, to insure his reelection he debased his opponent (Romney?), he controlled the press (MSM) and he gave out goodies (Santa Claus). Sound familiar?

  13. Valiuth
    Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

    Good point. If we can’t trust the federal government, who can we trust, really? And it’s not like there’s ever been evidence of government programs expanding in size and scope after they’re entrenched for a while. · 4 minutes ago

    It is also not like federal policies have never changed due to rising negative opinion. Obama’s policies in this case are not much different from the mean. He hasn’t crossed some new line. The executive branch has always been understood have the power to order the army to go and kill people at home and abroad, who stand in rebellion.  Especially when it is so obvious. 

    The checks and balances on this should not come from a judicial review. It needs to come from congress, being able to review these decisions and politicizing the decisions and results. 

    Tom: If you stand accused you can deflate the issue by turning yourself in. Forcing the matter to go to court. This is not the same thing. As what you mention. 

  14. Valiuth
    Tom Meyer

    Valiuth:

    We did not bother with any judicial review for the hundreds of thousands of Confederate soldiers killed by the US army? I also don’t think any one bothered with a trial in absentia for Bonnie and Clyde who were gunned down by police in an ambush no less.

    I don’t think a national insurrection with millions of combatants in uniform is comparable to the GWOT.  Also, Congress did at least eventually get around to properly suspending Habeas Corpus, which was entirely appropriate. · 10 minutes ago

    Ok, granted the Civil War is an extreme example, but Bonnie and Clyde are not. I also believe Hoover did have a thing early on for his officers just gunning down notorious outlaws. Plus remember the days of Dead of Alive posters Bush so cleverly alluded to that one time. There is a long history of gunning down criminals that can’t be captured in this country without any kind of trial. The Republic did not fall then it will not fall now. At least because of this. 

  15. Fricosis Guy

    Instructive that their first instinct is to behave like defense attorneys towards foreigners and like assassins towards citizens.

  16. Pseudodionysius

    Even SCOTUS can’t stop POTUS from using TOTUS to conceal DOTUS.

  17. Spin

    Standing on the beach with a gun in my hand…

    I have no issue with this.  I’m with Valiuth.  Join the Navy and see the world.  Join an international terrorist organization hell bent on destroying American and her allies, well then I’m not going to wring my hands over your constitutional rights.  

  18. Tom Meyer
    C
    Valiuth

    Mollie Hemingway, Ed.

    Good point. If we can’t trust the federal government, who can we trust, really? And it’s not like there’s ever been evidence of government programs expanding in size and scope after they’re entrenched for a while. · 4 minutes ago

    Tom: If you stand accused you can deflate the issue by turning yourself in. Forcing the matter to go to court. This is not the same thing. As what you mention.

    So long as you know you’re accused (in Awlaki’s case, the information was public).

    My attitude on this is very simple; the burden of doing a trial like this — or of getting warrants in drug cases or FISA — is very light.  If the government thinks it has such a slam-dunk case, it shouldn’t be hard to do reasonable due process.

  19. Tom Meyer
    C
    Spin: Join the Navy and see the world.  Join an international terrorist organization hell bent on destroying American and her allies, well then I’m not going to wring my hands over your constitutional rights.

    And you trust the president — both this one in particular, as well as any other — to have sole determination as to whether or not you’re a terrorist?

    As Kevin Williamson put it, “A government big enough to whack its citizens with drones is big enough to make them buy health insurance.”

  20. Maggie Leber

    What impresses me about all this is the fact that Obama bases his claim for the authority to use force in this way on “the right of self-defense”. 

    How deeply ironic, given his assault on the Second Amendment, where he claims that our citizens have no right to keep and bear “weapons of war”.

    Our constitutional-scholar-in-chief needs to re-read U.S. v. Miller.

    Assuming, of course, that he’s already read it once. 

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