Veni, Vidi, Deus Vicit: “I Came, I Saw, God Conquered”

 

After the Turkish siege of Vienna was broken in 1683 King Jan Sobieski III of Poland paraphrased the famous quote from Julius Caesar. Jan Sobieski led the largest cavalry charge in history, 18,000 horsemen attacked and routed the Ottoman forces outside Vienna. There have been 13 attempts to build a monument to Jan Sobieski and the Polish Winged Hussars in Vienna. It now looks like this last attempt will fail.

The story from The First News:

The foundation stone for the monument in Vienna was laid six years ago on the 330th anniversary of the battle. The unveiling of the monument was planned for 12 September 2018 on the 335th anniversary of the relief of Vienna.

However, last July, the new mayor of Vienna, Michael Ludwig, announced that he was withdrawing from the project.

Piotr Zapart, initiator of the project and chairman of the monument’s organising committee said in an interview with radio station RMF FM, “We had all the agreements in place; the cooperation with Vienna, as well as with Kraków was great; there was a signed agreement between the Mayor of the Kraków, Jacek Majchrowski, and the Mayor of Vienna, Michael Häupel.

“On 11 July, President Jacek Majchrowski and I were invited to meet the new mayor Michael Ludwig. And there we were told that a new committee had said that the monument did not meet the artistic standards, was archaic and therefore Vienna withdrew its consent.”

In its letter to the organising committee, the authorities in Vienna, fearing that the monument may be perceived as anti-Turkish, stated that it was not an appropriate time to erect military monuments.

The monument’s creator Czesław Dźwigaj said that the eight-metre long work weighing three tonnes featuring Sobieski on a horse does not feature any Turkish or Islamic symbols.

He also pointed out that in Vienna there are two monuments of Crimean Tartars who took part in the relief of Vienna and fought alongside Sobieski.

The statue is now resting on a flatbed trailer in Krakow. Fortunately for the residents of Vienna, as well as the rest of Southern Europe, Jan Sobieski chose not to rest in Krakow 336 years ago.

Perhaps the Mayor of Vienna could ask Pope Francis to send a statue of Pachamama to grace Vienna, one that could not be tossed into a river.

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  1. Misthiocracy grudgingly Member
    Misthiocracy grudgingly
    @Misthiocracy

    To be fair, the statue is kinda weird-looking.

    • #1
  2. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Misthiocracy grudgingly (View Comment):

    To be fair, the statue is kinda weird-looking.

    Mis,

    How many modern works of art can you not say this about? Frankly, Vienna just did a Chick-fil-A on this. Hey, how about a monument to the Armenians who died in the genocide. Now that would offend Erdogan, wouldn’t it? Yessssss!!!

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #2
  3. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Misthiocracy grudgingly (View Comment):

    To be fair, the statue is kinda weird-looking.

    Yes, I think it would have offended the sensibilities of Turks of good taste.

    • #3
  4. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    I suppose this does inform a bit about modern European sensibilities. To resist being conquered is to be “anti-diverse.” Thank gosh they learned to be more accommodating by the mid-Twentieth Century. 

    • #4
  5. Kay of MT Inactive
    Kay of MT
    @KayofMT

    You people just don’t appreciate the artist and horses. I think he did a spectacular job! It conveys the lead horseman, and then the hoards of horsemen coming behind. I think it is magnificent, and they can set it in my front yard any day! Look at that face of the leader, determined to win at all cost, with the war horse setting along with him, and his followers! And win they did!

    Seems to be no warriors in the current administration willing to convey to the current terrorists that they have any cojones to take them on again if necessary.

    • #5
  6. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Steyn wept.

    • #6
  7. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Misthiocracy grudgingly (View Comment):

    To be fair, the statue is kinda weird-looking.

    It’s a bit naff.  But I love it!

    It has that Tolkien Nazgul vibe.

    (Naz, btw, is Turkish for affectation, coquetry or coyness.  Gul is Turkish for….rose.)

    From the Kafkadesk:

    …the siege of Vienna has increasingly become a central part of the European far-right ideology who see the Battle as a turning point at a time  when “Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe”

    …John III Sobieski, the king of the multilingual and multi-religious Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, might not have won the battle were it not for the help of his country’s Sunni Muslim Tatars, known as the Lipka Tatars”…In fact, many historians have claimed that “there is no ruler so revered among the Muslim Tatars as John III Sobieski”. He even ensured the construction of several mosques in the region and secured “the only example of a lasting Muslim community in a non-Islamic European country [Poland]”…

    the Ottomans, led by the Sunni Muslim Sultan Mehmed IV, were allied with the Roman Catholic King of France, Louis XIV. Additionally, the Protestants of Europe, such as William of Orange’s Netherlands and the Hungarian Lutherians, often had high hopes for help from the Ottoman Muslims against the Pope and the Catholic powers of Spain and Vienna.

    …the Battle of Vienna wasn’t a war between the cross and the crescent, it was not a clash of civilisations, nor was it a mighty Christian victory over Islam. In fact “[it] didn’t matter as much in European history as some would like to believe”.

     

    • #7
  8. Misthiocracy grudgingly Member
    Misthiocracy grudgingly
    @Misthiocracy

    Kay of MT (View Comment):

    You people just don’t appreciate the artist and horses. I think he did a spectacular job! It conveys the lead horseman, and then the hoards of horsemen coming behind. I think it is magnificent, and they can set it in my front yard any day! Look at that face of the leader, determined to win at all cost, with the war horse setting along with him, and his followers! And win they did!

    Seems to be no warriors in the current administration willing to convey to the current terrorists that they have any cojones to take them on again if necessary.

    It’s not the faces or the horses that strike me as odd.  It’s the Batman capes.

    • #8
  9. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Misthiocracy grudgingly (View Comment):

    To be fair, the statue is kinda weird-looking.

    A Bing image search turned up pictures of:

    • Locomotives
    • Engines for sale
    • Particularly nasty car wrecks
    • Tanks (well, at least that’s figuratively close)

    It ain’t no Laocoon and Sons, that’s for sure.

    • #9
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Zafar (View Comment):
    From the Kafkadesk:

    Oh … well, if Kafkadesk says so … wait, who?

    • #10
  11. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Percival (View Comment):
    Kafkadesk

    Oh … well, if Kafkadesk says so … wait, who?

    The name is inspired.  But if you prefer.

    • #11
  12. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    Kafkadesk

    Oh … well, if Kafkadesk says so … wait, who?

    The name is inspired. But if you prefer.

    The Ottomans ceased to be a threat to Eastern Europe after Vienna. They were left to defend what they already had, and they still lost Hungary and Transylvania. Vienna is when “the sick man of Europe” started to develop that nasty cough.

    So said Walter Leitsch in 1983. Leitsch was “Professor of East European History and Director of the Institute of East and Southeast European Research at the University of Vienna,” which admittedly must put him at a disadvantage compared to Dag Herbjørnsrud,  “a historian of ideas,” whatever the hell that might mean. And frankly, Herbjørnsrud’s point would lend support to the ecumenical nature of the conflict, so the Turks have no call to take offense or to even notice.

    • #12
  13. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Percival (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):
    Kafkadesk

    Oh … well, if Kafkadesk says so … wait, who?

    The name is inspired. But if you prefer.

    The Ottomans ceased to be a threat to Eastern Europe after Vienna.

    Sure. That isn’t in dispute, but rather whether it was a Christian-Muslim conflict  or something less black and white.

    And frankly, Herbjørnsrud’s point would lend support to the ecumenical nature of the conflict, so the Turks have no call to take offense or to even notice.

    Why? They aren’t just Muslims (we presume) they’re Turks (we presume).

    That said, I think the Viennese are more interested in OPEC than in this. So….

     

    • #13
  14. aardo vozz Member
    aardo vozz
    @aardovozz

    With regards to the title of the post, I have always preferred Robert Heinlein’s paraphrase in his novel “Time Enough for Love” in his “Sayings from the notebooks of Lazarus Long”:

    “I came, I saw, she conquered.(The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)”

    • #14
  15. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Who approves a monument without seeing the concept art first? 

    Doug Watt: The statue is now resting on a flatbed trailer in Krakow.

    I like the idea of a cavalry monument on wheels. Someone should take it on tour.

    • #15
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