Breaking: Mass Shooting in Las Vegas

 

Police responded late Sunday night to reports of an active shooter situation at an outdoor country music festival near Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. In a briefing held just after 3 am ET, a public information officer for the Las Vegas PD said that one suspect is down. He advised everyone to avoid the Las Vegas Strip. From ABC News:

Officials at the University Medical Center in Las Vegas told ABC News that it had at least 20 victims with gunshot wounds right now, with the number expected to grow. The hospital did not provide information on the victims’ conditions…

“They were firing from somewhere high, and they were unloading clip after clip after clip after clip,” a witness told Nathan O’Neal, a reporter for a local news station, KSNV News. “It was hundreds of shots.”

https://twitter.com/davidsakach/status/914730995147870208

https://twitter.com/NateNews3LV/status/914728749668507648

Local station KNTV reported that as of 3:15 am ET, two people are confirmed dead and 24 hospitalized. You can watch KNTV’s live feed here.

Update (4:35 am ET): In a second public statement, Las Vegas Police said that there are more than 20 people dead and more than 100 injured.

Update (6:50 am ET): Las Vegas Police now saying more than 50 people dead and more than 200 injured. This makes it the deadliest mass shooting in US history. The gunman has been identified as Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, NV.

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  1. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    50 plus dead 400 injured so far say sheriff on TV right now. My sister just last week in her small town state worker had active shooter training….what has happened to our world??!

    I think we all wonder that. Only God knows!!

    • #31
  2. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    iWe (View Comment):
    Arutz Sheva is reporting that he was a convert to Islam.

    That could very well ring true, these days. I hope we get more info on that.

    • #32
  3. John Stater Inactive
    John Stater
    @JohnStater

    I’m a local. This is heartbreaking news, just terrible. Attacks like this have been a worry for a while now, given that we have so many visitors in Las Vegas, and packed into a relatively small area. Now it has happened – just awful.

    • #33
  4. George Townsend Inactive
    George Townsend
    @GeorgeTownsend

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    But why attack a concert if you are Antifa? Normally domestic terrorists choose targets with political significance. The baseball game with congressmen or the federal building in Oklahoma

    Nothing can be ruled out, but it does seem a stretch to say it was Anti-fa. Why not pray for the victims now, and leave the speculating for a few days? There is a time and place.

    • #34
  5. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Once again my FB feed is full of people calling for increased gun control.

    • #35
  6. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bob W (View Comment):
    There’s really only three reasons someone does mass killings.Political motivation, personal grievance, or they’re on drugs.

    You left out whacked-out nutjob.  (although you may have intended to include that with your commentary on anti-depressants.

    • #36
  7. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    Just incredible.

    • #37
  8. Larry3435 Inactive
    Larry3435
    @Larry3435

    blood thirsty neocon (View Comment):
    Are Vegas Ricochetti okay?

    I am, thanks for asking.  We live about five miles from the site, and I didn’t even hear about the shooting until I woke up this morning and turned on the news.  Fortunately, so far as I can tell everyone we know here is also okay.

    • #38
  9. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Well according to the AP the FBI has just confirmed that the shooter had no ties to ISIS or other foreign terrorist.

    Which I guess is a good thing… God. Every time we have something like this I look to see if it is a Jihadi and when it is not I feel slightly relieved. How messed up is that? That we can actually feel thankful that this guy was just a a lone nutjob and not part of an organized group of nutjobs…

    • #39
  10. JeffHawkins Inactive
    JeffHawkins
    @JeffHawkins

    Valiuth (View Comment):

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    But why attack a concert if you are Antifa?

    In this case, because those people are potentially Trump voters? No Trump, no KKK, No fascist USA?

    Eh…seems like too much of a stretch Los Vegas anit exactly Trump country. Terrorists aren’t mentally disturbed (in the classical my dog told me to do it way) so their motivations are fathomable if horrendous. Take the Dallas shooter he was mad at cops, so he shot cops. He didn’t go to a concert and shot people thinking there might be cops there. No this man is either severely disturbed and therefore incomprehensible or he was driven by an ideology with a more general hate. So I am far more likely to believe he was an Islamist (though there doesn’t seem to be any proof of this) than to think this was Antifa. Just based on the choice of target.

    Country music fans are thought to be more Red State style folk.  Even this young pop country, which is a severe lapse in judgment of those who go to festivals like this.

    On the whole I was thinking that was the motivator.  But I’ve made no real opinion.

    • #40
  11. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Bob W (View Comment):
    The modern mass shooting is about 30 years old and so is the SSRI antidepressant, which carries a suicidality risk in its warnings. For some, that risk becomes a risk for homicidality. Many infamous mass shooters were on these drugs.

    Yup.

    • #41
  12. Roberto Inactive
    Roberto
    @Roberto

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Well according to the AP the FBI has just confirmed that the shooter had no ties to ISIS or other foreign terrorist.

    Which I guess is a good thing… God. Every time we have something like this I look to see if it is a Jihadi and when it is not I feel slightly relieved. How messed up is that? That we can actually feel thankful that this guy was just a a lone nutjob and not part of an organized group of nutjobs…

    I don’t know. This would seem even worse to me if correct.

    So some random guy acquires this weapon, apparently spends the time and effort to modify it such that it is fully automatic, then reserves a high vantage point over a large crowd (chosen at random?) and proceeds to build up the largest body count he is capable of inflicting.

    For what? Basically to get in all the headlines? His face and name plastered across the media? He was an old nobody who no one gave a damn about but now he has made himself famous, is that it? To me that would be worse.

    • #42
  13. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    I agree with the 24 hour rule. It is not worth speculating to far at this point. Let’s just pray for the victims and praise the heroes as they are revealed.

    • #43
  14. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    There is a problem with the SSRI meds causing these horrific acts of violence. Psychiatric care and this class of drugs come up too often in mass shootings to be a coincidence.

    Looking at the human mind and how it works, it’s clear how this happens. Our brain takes in billions of images and text messages every single day, which today includes violent movies, televisions shows, and literature. We don’t discharge that input. Unfortunately it just piles up. Nearly everyone has the mental ability to ignore stuff that isn’t important or relevant or that is immoral. But it’s just sitting there all the time.

    The SSRIs stir up crap in the brain that people ordinarily ignore.

    It happens so rarely that it’s impossible to predict the patients it will affect. We are talking about a very small number of patients who are super-sensitive to these drugs. But those single patients out of a million patients can wreak more damage than we could ever imagine twenty years ago.

    The rule should be that if someone is on an SSRI, that person should have to have a lot of psychiatric supervision. In my opinion, the psychiatrists have been negligent over the last ten years in this regard while this evidence has been mounting.

    These mass shootings are not normal human behavior. And that is what psychiatrists are trained to recognize: abnormal behavior.

    A psyche nurse once explained why people are put on suicide watch when they first start taking an antidepressant. These patients have been experiencing suicidal imagining for a long time. What happens when they start taking the antidepressant is that for the first time in a long time, they feel better and they are clearer thinking. Now they are able to actually do what they have been dreaming about doing. In other words, a severely mentally ill person can’t get organized to accomplish much of anything, much less a mass shooting which entails obtaining the guns in the first place.

    We have got to talk to the nation’s psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies. We need to get them in the same room and ask some really hard questions. We have got to figure this out, and we can if we look at it without politics.

    • #44
  15. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Roberto (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Well according to the AP the FBI has just confirmed that the shooter had no ties to ISIS or other foreign terrorist.

    Which I guess is a good thing… God. Every time we have something like this I look to see if it is a Jihadi and when it is not I feel slightly relieved. How messed up is that? That we can actually feel thankful that this guy was just a a lone nutjob and not part of an organized group of nutjobs…

    I don’t know. This would seem even worse to me if correct.

    So some random guy acquires this weapon, apparently spends the time and effort to modify it such that it is fully automatic, then reserves a high vantage point over a large crowd (chosen at random?) and proceeds to build up the largest body count he is capable of inflicting.

    For what? Basically to get in all the headlines? His face and name plastered across the media? He was an old nobody who no one gave a damn about but now he has made himself famous, is that it? To me that would be worse.

    I guess one can take different views of which is worse. An organized element that can continuously pump out further horror seems worse to me. The fact that this man was not part of that lets me suspect that we are being as vigilant against that threat as possible. But, I agree it is not all that comforting. I understand that he was found with something like 10 guns (not sure of the make of each).

    The fact that his weapon appears to have been automatic is also very troubling. It is no off the shelf purchase that. This either means he passed some strict licensing laws, or was able to modify or buy such weapons illegally. How easy is it to modify a semi back into a full auto? I can’t even imagine what buying one on the black market means in terms of difficulty.

    • #45
  16. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    MarciN (View Comment):
    There is a problem with the SSRI meds causing these horrific acts of violence. Psychiatric care and this class of drugs come up too often in mass shootings to be a coincidence.

    Looking at the human mind and how it works, it’s clear how this happens. Our brain takes in billions of images and text messages every single day, which today includes violence movies, televisions shows, and literature. We don’t discharge that input. Unfortunately it just piles up. Nearly everyone has the mental ability to ignore stuff that isn’t important or relevant or that is immoral. But it’s just sitting there all the time.

    The SSRIs stir up crap in the brain that people ordinarily ignore.

    It happens so rarely that it’s impossible to predict the patients it will affect. We are talking about a very small number of patients who are super-sensitive to these drugs. But those single patients out of a million patients can wreak more damage than we could ever imagine twenty years ago.

    The rule should be that if someone is on an SSRI, that person should have to have a lot of psychiatric supervision. In my opinion, the psychiatrists have been negligent over the last ten years in this regard while this evidence has been mounting.

    These mass shootings are not normal human behavior. And that is what psychiatrists are trained to recognize: abnormal behavior.

    A psyche nurse once explained why people are put on suicide watch when they first start taking an antidepressant. These patients have been experiencing suicidal imagining for a long time. What happens when they start taking the antidepressant is that for the first time in a long time, they feel better and they are clearer thinking. Now they are able to actually do what they have been dreaming about doing. In other words, a severely mentally ill person can’t get organized to accomplish much of anything, much less a mass shooting which entails obtaining the guns in the first place.

    We have got to talk to the nation’s psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies. We need to get them in the same room and ask some really hard questions. We have got to figure this out, and we can if we look at is apolitically.

    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications, and a majority of them take SSRI’s.  SSRI’s have been notable in preventing suicides.  I would guess that more lives have been saved by SSRI’s than have been lost in shootings related to SSRI’s by a factor of 10 to 100.  I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition.  Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    • #46
  17. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications, and a majority of them take SSRI’s. SSRI’s have been notable in preventing suicides. I would guess that more lives have been saved by SSRI’s than have been lost in shootings related to SSRI’s by a factor of 10 to 100. I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    I know that.

    What I’m saying is that a tiny tiny tiny fraction of those people will respond to the drugs very badly.

    The drugs don’t need to be banned, and we don’t need to lock up the mentally ill to prevent these tragedies.

    What we need is better in-home community care where a trained caregiver looks in on the person every day to see how the person is doing and to look for some telltale behaviors.

    • #47
  18. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    I blame Satan. This not-to-be-named murderer did an evil, evil thing, I don’t care what meds he was or wasn’t taking. We’re never going to eliminate evil in the world. Only God can do that.

    • #48
  19. Richard Easton Coolidge
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    Roberto (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Well according to the AP the FBI has just confirmed that the shooter had no ties to ISIS or other foreign terrorist.

    Which I guess is a good thing… God. Every time we have something like this I look to see if it is a Jihadi and when it is not I feel slightly relieved. How messed up is that? That we can actually feel thankful that this guy was just a a lone nutjob and not part of an organized group of nutjobs…

    I don’t know. This would seem even worse to me if correct.

    So some random guy acquires this weapon, apparently spends the time and effort to modify it such that it is fully automatic, then reserves a high vantage point over a large crowd (chosen at random?) and proceeds to build up the largest body count he is capable of inflicting.

    For what? Basically to get in all the headlines? His face and name plastered across the media? He was an old nobody who no one gave a damn about but now he has made himself famous, is that it? To me that would be worse.

    How would the FBI know.  They couldn’t figure out the motive of the congressional shooter when it was obvious.  The FBI has no credibility left.

    • #49
  20. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    How would the FBI know. They couldn’t figure out the motive of the congressional shooter when it was obvious. The FBI has no credibility left.

    Richard,

    This exactly. Have we all forgotten that ISIS had specifically targeted Las Vegas last year and made a terror video about attacks there. They have been looking for lone wolf crazies they can convert and use. ISIS claims Paddock converted in the last few months. I couldn’t possibly say whether this was true or not but there is great plausibility that this is ISIS related. The FBI is just buying time claiming no “direct” relation with ISIS. We already know that direct relationships aren’t necessary for a Jihad inspired attack.

    Maybe ISIS knows something that the FBI doesn’t or doesn’t want us to know just yet.

    With No Evidence, Islamic State Claims Responsibility for Las Vegas Shooting

    ISIS has previously encouraged its supporters and lone-wolf jihadis to target Las Vegas, with a propaganda video from 2016 using footage of the city’s iconic strip which was described as “sin city.” It has also published statements claiming a variety of global atrocities for which there has been limited evidence linking assailants to the group. ISIS has suffered major losses in the past year in its “caliphate” in Syria and Iraq.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #50
  21. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    You and Hillary are on the same page.

    • #51
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications, and a majority of them take SSRI’s. SSRI’s have been notable in preventing suicides. I would guess that more lives have been saved by SSRI’s than have been lost in shootings related to SSRI’s by a factor of 10 to 100. I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    I know that.

    What I’m saying is that a tiny tiny tiny fraction of those people will respond to the drugs very badly.

    The drugs don’t need to be banned, and we don’t need to lock up the mentally ill to prevent these tragedies.

    What we need is better in-home community care where a trained caregiver looks in on the person every day to see how the person is doing and to look for some telltale behaviors.

    Do you have any idea of the cost of doing this?  Do you have any idea of how many people would lose their lives to suicide due to the prohibitive cost of doing this?

    • #52
  23. RJ Inactive
    RJ
    @RJClark

    Not ISIS?

    • #53
  24. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications, and a majority of them take SSRI’s. SSRI’s have been notable in preventing suicides. I would guess that more lives have been saved by SSRI’s than have been lost in shootings related to SSRI’s by a factor of 10 to 100. I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    I know that.

    What I’m saying is that a tiny tiny tiny fraction of those people will respond to the drugs very badly.

    The drugs don’t need to be banned, and we don’t need to lock up the mentally ill to prevent these tragedies.

    What we need is better in-home community care where a trained caregiver looks in on the person every day to see how the person is doing and to look for some telltale behaviors.

    Do you have any idea of the cost of doing this?  Do you have any idea of how many people would lose their lives to suicide due to the prohibitive cost of doing this?

    livingthehighlife (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    You and Hillary are on the same page.

    I understand that it is illegal to have a fully automatic weapon.  How about starting there?

    • #54
  25. RJ Inactive
    RJ
    @RJClark

    RJ (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Roberto (View Comment):

    Valiuth (View Comment):
    Well according to the AP the FBI has just confirmed that the shooter had no ties to ISIS or other foreign terrorist.

    Which I guess is a good thing… God. Every time we have something like this I look to see if it is a Jihadi and when it is not I feel slightly relieved. How messed up is that? That we can actually feel thankful that this guy was just a a lone nutjob and not part of an organized group of nutjobs…

    I don’t know. This would seem even worse to me if correct.

    So some random guy acquires this weapon, apparently spends the time and effort to modify it such that it is fully automatic, then reserves a high vantage point over a large crowd (chosen at random?) and proceeds to build up the largest body count he is capable of inflicting.

    For what? Basically to get in all the headlines? His face and name plastered across the media? He was an old nobody who no one gave a damn about but now he has made himself famous, is that it? To me that would be worse.

    How would the FBI know. They couldn’t figure out the motive of the congressional shooter when it was obvious. The FBI has no credibility left.

    I read a report dated 5:19 am that the FBI confirmed no ISIS. Not sure how they can confidently confirm that in less than 12 hours. I’m skeptical.

    • #55
  26. Son of Barsham Member
    Son of Barsham
    @LesserSonofBarsham

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications, and a majority of them take SSRI’s. SSRI’s have been notable in preventing suicides. I would guess that more lives have been saved by SSRI’s than have been lost in shootings related to SSRI’s by a factor of 10 to 100. I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    I know that.

    What I’m saying is that a tiny tiny tiny fraction of those people will respond to the drugs very badly.

    The drugs don’t need to be banned, and we don’t need to lock up the mentally ill to prevent these tragedies.

    What we need is better in-home community care where a trained caregiver looks in on the person every day to see how the person is doing and to look for some telltale behaviors.

    Do you have any idea of the cost of doing this? Do you have any idea of how many people would lose their lives to suicide due to the prohibitive cost of doing this?

    livingthehighlife (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    You and Hillary are on the same page.

    I understand that it is illegal to have a fully automatic weapon. How about starting there?

    It’s illegal unless you’ve gone through the permitting process with the ATF and been investigated deeply by the FBI. It’s also extremely expensive. So either he did it legally…which means we’ve already got something in place and the FBI botched it, or a criminal broke the law and the only way to know is something terrible happens. How, pray-tell, do you intend on keeping someone who’s already intent on committing multiple counts of 1st degree murder (which I understand is illegal) from doing something else that’s already illegal?

    • #56
  27. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    livingthehighlife (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    You and Hillary are on the same page.

    I understand that it is illegal to have a fully automatic weapon. How about starting there?

    He broke the law!  Throw the bastard in jail!

    He also violated the law by committing murder.  What’s your plan to stop that in the future?

    • #57
  28. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Do you have any idea of the cost of doing this? Do you have any idea of how many people would lose their lives to suicide due to the prohibitive cost of doing this?

    I’m not talking about supervising the entire population of people who take SSRIs.

    There is a small percentage of at-risk people involved.

    • #58
  29. OldDan Rhody Member
    OldDan Rhody
    @OldDanRhody

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    One in six Americans take psychiatric medications

    !!!!

    • #59
  30. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I understand that the shooter had numerous weapons and 30 round clips of ammunition. Perhaps that might be a place to start looking on preventing situations like this in the future.

    We have real data on this, because we had an assault weapon ban for a decade.  The government’s conclusion, to the chagrin of anti-gun advocates everywhere, was that the ban had no effect on reducing the number of victims shot per mass shooting, or in reducing the overall number of mass shootings.

     

    • #60
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