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“I don’t forgive you, Jonah Goldberg,…”
“…because there is nothing to forgive.”
Jonah’s column today addresses whether a NeverTrumper needs to be forgiven. He doesn’t think so, and I agree. I voted for Trump, he didn’t. Trump won; thank G-d given the choice we had.
I don’t think Trump hung the moon and I don’t expect him to restore limited government. I do expect him to make mistakes, and I am hoping those mistakes are survivable. I do think we will be better able to assess what we will get on the 101st day of his administration than we are now. We are sitting at the starting line with engines revving and imagining how it will be. No one really knows.
2017 could be a really weird year. The one thing I am counting on is that Trump is determined to be consequential. I want that, too, because the headwinds from Democrats, academia, media, and the useful idiots and paid activists is going to be fierce. So at a level I think the Trump “true believers” (of which I am not one) will have an important role to play in sustaining the Trump momentum.
Jonah has legitimate fears about Donald Trump:
What I have chiefly in mind is that rich nexus of unrestrained ego, impoverished impulse control, and contempt for policy due diligence. I firmly and passionately believe that character is destiny. From his reported refusal to accept daily intelligence briefings to his freelancing every issue under the sun on Twitter — including, most recently, nuclear-arms policy — Trump’s blasé attitude troubles me deeply, just as it did during the campaign.
The sad truth is that people of sterling character rarely run for President, much less win. At a minimum they all must have egos that blind them to some manifest flaws. But as history has taught us this does not disqualify them from being heroes.
I am hopeful, but I am not expecting it to be pretty. As Jonah is a culture buff I commend to him the movie The Dirty Dozen. We need to secure the border, secure the Court, and re-establish the rule of law. But pocketbook issues will “trump” fidelity to constitutional reformation. So the Trump administration will not be a paragon of federalism and the Commerce Clause will continue to be abused. Conservatives will continue their sojourn in the wilderness, but hopefully will remain closer to the Promised Land. Under Hillary they would have been driven into the Red Sea.
Published in General
I don’t think Jonah needs forgiveness for anything other than being wrong (and all the normal Grace we all need).
That is not true for all of NT out there, though.
I get a kick out of pundits on both the left and the right who are confidently predicting what Trump will or will not do during the next four years. They haven’t a clue – any more than Trump does himself. Nor, for that matter, does any new president. George W. and Obama both thought they’d concentrate on domestic issues, but both will be remembered largely for their foreign policies.
I don’t think this is Jonah’s problem. Jonah is worried about Trump specifically because he doesn’t know what Trump will or will not do. At least with other politicians one has an idea how they will respond to situations.
You’re right. I was just throwing that into the mix because Rodin came perilously close to predicting how Trump would act.
I agree with Jonah. The idea that the former NeverTrumpers “Got everything wrong,” is only plausible if you consider, “Can Trump win?” to be literally the only question that matters. It’s the equivalent of a guy winning big on a long shot and then deciding Jimmy the Greek (or whoever the modern equivalent is) was a moron.
Most progressives would rather self-amputate their legs with fingernail scissors than admit that on the important issues of the day Ronald Reagan was right and they were wrong. His administration was successful because it was built on a foundation of sound principles painstakingly constructed over decades of thought.
My sincere wish is four years from now I will look back and think, hmm, I was wrong about Trump. Yes, perhaps even arrogantly wrong. (What varietal of wine goes well with crow?) I want Trump to do well in office because that would mean America does well as a country, my silly little ego be damned.
But: for Trump to do well he will have to govern well and that means he will have to latch onto principles that are sound and good. Time-tested, one might say. His cabinet choices (mostly) suggest he is turning more and more towards the light. For the time being hope is winning out over trepidation.
Trump has appointed the most conservative cabinet in modern history, will soon restore a center-right majority to SCOTUS, staked out clear conservative forward positions on Castro (dead)/Castroism (not), and the American left’s antipathy for Israel.
Jonah still prefers to look at the world as the backdrop in the mirror he preens into … for his NeverTrump choir at NR.
On Fox, we see a very different anti-liberal Jonah.
Jonah Goldberg did what he could to prevent the outcome for which you are thanking God.
This.
The big problem still with us is that we who voted for Trump are drummed out of the room whenever we point out that the NT elites and opinion makers did all they could to help Hillary get the presidency. This is a fact and we are constantly bullied to not say that simple fact. This is like a big lie from the leftists in the country that we have to swallow if we want to get along with them. I’m sick of it. Face the truth, Jonah, you decided Trump was worse than Hillary.
Your opinion is not fact.
I think that your Jonah-bashing is premature. Trump hasn’t taken office yet and you’re attacking someone who believes – not without reason – that Trump will not always act wisely.
I’m with Franz (post #6) on this one. Trump has done well so far – certainly much better than I thought he would – and I wish him all the best. But I’m not so confident in Trump’s great virtue that I’m willing to demonize someone who will hold Trump to account should he revert to his previous liberal ways.
Mr Goldberg would have been better off not writing this article. He doesn’t come out of it looking very good, as he isn’t really asking for forgiveness, instead, it came off to me as a (another?) thumb in the eye of Trump supporters. I’ve heard quite enough high minded admonishment that Trump didn’t ‘hang the moon’ ( or as Goldberg puts it: “Indeed, the bulk of those shouting that I got “everything wrong” seem to be the “Trump can do no wrong” crowd as well.”) .
Supporting the President elect does NOT constitute blind loyalty, cult of personality worship, or whatever other insulting inference of stupidity or outright zombie like supplication that those who didn’t support Hillary for president are assumed MUST have for Trump. Until these supposed pundits get some idea of the reasons that they apparently could not see that lead to a Trump victory, they are by their own admission out of touch.
“There is a weird, not quite fully baked idea out there that if you — or me — were wrong about Trump’s electoral chances, that means you must be wrong about the man in full.”
No, Mr Goldberg, it doesn’t mean you were wrong about the man in full. It also doesn’t mean you were right about the man otherwise. It means YOU DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE. Comment accordingly, and you might win back some cred.
Criticism from supporters is constructive. From NeverTrump it is just more internal opposition.
You’re drummed out of the room because it’s self-evidently absurd. You are talking about people who were opposing the Clintons at a time when Donald Trump was one of their biggest supporters. Donald Trump was a lifelong Democrat until about two years ago, and one of his closest advisers, Ivanka, still is by all accounts. Jonah, like a lot of people, decided both candidates were unacceptable and told the truth regardless of who benefited.
Many of us have been pleasantly surprised with some of the things he’s done, but the key word there is, surprised. Yes, he nominated a mostly impressive cabinet, yes, he’s turning out to be a great friend to Israel, yes, he seems to recognize the evils of the administrative state, but anyone who thinks these things should have been easily foreseeable is being dishonest.
It’s not a matter of forgiveness, it’s a matter of relevance as a pundit/prognosticator. The election is over. Jonah is free to think and vote as he wishes. Just as I left the GOP for not reflecting my wishes years ago, despite being better than the Democrats and all that, I am no longer perusing the pages of NRO as a likely reflection of my thinking. The definition of ‘conservatism’ is as much damaged from the reaction to Trump as from Trump himself.
Also, this.
We are not there yet. Do not celebrate; support, insist.
I think it more accurate to say that Jonah did not think Trump was better for the country than Hillary (and in this he was wrong) and worse than Hillary on the cohesion within the conservative movement (and on this he was right). Jonah thought Hillary was going to win in a landslide and that his personal voting and public writings were not going to affect an established reality. In effect he thought he could retain his purity in defeat. Thankfully enough people in the right places disagreed.
There’s that “relevance” word again. It’s funny how one’s attitude toward Trump has become the sole deciding factor in whether or not one is relevant. I can’t imagine how someone might conclude that there’s a cult of personality going on here.
The “Trump can do no wrong” crowd is yet another illusion Goldberg indulges himself in. In this unbelievably hostile environment filled with complete falsehoods, half-truths, and fill-in-the-blnk conclusions of what Trump said, or meant or ever supported (see the ridiculous comment above) any defense of Trump looks to these folks like blind allegiance. I have experienced nearly the same thing during the 2002-2006 period defending the Iraq War and G.W. Bush only this time it’s worse and involves Conservatorial NeverTrump pundits.
The fact is they still have him so wrong that the first issue must be addressed before we move on to nuance. That to JG, looks like blind allegiance? He’s still spectacularly wrong.
Besides, these folks have too-quickly forgotten what the alternative would have been, had they actually succeeded in their Evan Mc Mulligan mission. Now we are supposed to quibble over a phone call to Carrier as an indication of coming governmental interference in the economy? From people who nominated and/or elected Republican ‘interferers’ for decades?
I regret that I have but one like to give.
The problem as I see it is that NeverTrump has been coopted by the Democrats. It was really a public movement limited to the primaries. But when Trump was nominated NeverTrump became a tool of the Democrats regardless of the preferences of Republican NeverTrumpers. Yes, there were McMullin supporters but I think the evidence suggests that most NeverTrumpers from the primary period went out and voted for Trump. I know I did. It’s time for us all to get over it and not be used by the Democrats.
That’s ridiculous. Criticism is either correct or it isn’t, the source has no bearing on that.
This is hogwash. Trump endorsed Romney and McCain for President and gave them both money. Trump gave to the Clinton protection racket some small donations. She was a NY Senator. He has interests in NY. He gave money to all the corrupt politicians, but to claim he was a Democrat? Get some facts.
Glad Jonah has his reputation for ‘truth’ intact. I’d rather a fighter on my side than a self aggrandizing martyr. But Jonah’s ‘truth’ is just his opinion, and the stock has gone down dramatically.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/16/donald-trump-changed-political-parties-at-least-fi/
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/aug/28/david-plouffe/yes-donald-trump-donated-100000-clinton-foundation/
https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_Donald_Trump%27s_political_donations
These are the facts.
It is a fact that during the campaign both Hillary and the NTs did all they could to damage Trump. It is a fact that the NT elites helped Hillary WAY MORE than they helped Trump. It doesn’t matter what lie they tell us because their actions are where you get the facts.
They have become useful to the opposition. Just as they were willing to see Hillary win.
I don’t want any part of blind support, but I know the kind of endless attacks and undermining any Republican president will face – Trump more than most. In the light of that, even minor carping from NeverTrumps is especially unhelpful. Even if it is couched in ‘constructive criticism’ camo.
It is time right now to allow the incoming President a honeymoon, at least from his own party! Is that mind numbed support, or just common sense?
It wasn’t about being wrong about his chances to be elected. It was about helping Hillary — that’s what is going on here. It’s the 600 lb. gorilla that everyone ignores.
That is not a fact, that is an opinion.
Who did the NT elites help: Trump or Hillary? Who did the NT elites denigrate more: Trump or Hillary?